Lauren Langman: 0:09

Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. Hello and welcome to the Sex and Squirrel podcast, a podcast that gives you real life results, even when you're doing a podcast in a hat.

Lauren Langman: 0:35

Now why am I in a hat? The reason I'm in a hat is it's blooming, freezing, and I decided, if I take my hat off, I've got hat hair and I'm still a little bit cold too. So you know what? We've been training. We've been training a lot today, haven't we? We've actually had a really good day. It's been a long day, yeah, and we were talking, and I think this is so interesting. We're talking today.

Lauren Langman: 0:53

What makes people compete with dogs? Like, why do people compete with dogs? Like, what is this whole crazy thing about? Because I've been a competitor with dogs now for 25 years, that scares me a little, because I actually can't believe that's quarter of a century I've been competing with dogs and I remember the first time I ever went to a competition with a dog, linda, that I jumped more jumps than my dog did. I had no idea of the competition I was going into. I really didn't have a clue and I would say now I'm a very competent competitor no-transcript competitive sport like we do. So, as a psychotherapist, as somebody who's got huge understanding of people and how we think and why we think and what we do, and as this is an area that I know you've looked into, what's this all about?

Linda Hughes: 2:06

what's it all about? Well, for you, I think you are innately competitive, so that that and you've just described a sort of naught to a hundred mile an hour experience, like the first time you went in you weren't, you weren't particularly good, you jumped more jumps than your dog, and now you know you're the lean, mean killing machine when you walk into an agility ring, um, so that's, that's a. That's a big gap, and many people are somewhere in between. Um, there's two types of people really. There's people who are innately competitive. Now, that comes from all sorts of situations. You can be genetically just that's the way of situations. You can be genetically just that's the way you are. You could be brought up in a family you know the ones that play all the board games or you grew up with three brothers, so you had to compete for everything, whatever it is. There could be a family that's very competitive, um, and I've got a really quick thought on that.

Lauren Langman: 3:03

Yes, and I think my parents never had time for board games because my parents were both very, very, very hardworking. I think lots of people have got sort of various different histories. My history was my parents were very, very, very working class. Dad was a carpenter, electrician. Mum worked a million jobs, so actually we didn't have anything and I think we had nothing. So I I think, having nothing, you had to fight for anything you wanted, but that's what they modeled for you. Yeah, they learned that that drive. And then 11, I did the same as soon as I could have a job, because we couldn't have a lot. I wanted to work hard and I wanted to work hard so we could have more, because I could see how important it was and I would always try and contribute and I would always try and build and earn. So I'm listening and I'm thinking.

Linda Hughes: 3:45

I never thought about it, but I wonder if that's where that came from, because I've always wanted to hustle to try and help the family mission yeah, so that that will have contributed to your drive and your desire to better yourself, to, to win, to, to create whatever a better life for you and your family. So then there's there's also people get some satisfaction from being seen to have achieved things, so that's that sort of self-confidence or self-belief, or a sort of some sort of reward for themselves. But but a lot of people don't have very strong competitive um, because they may be, too, what we call agreeable and that's a that's actually. I don't know whether you ever did, um psychometric testing in any of your jobs or career, but you know where you have to fill in this long questionnaire and they rank like um, I'm trying to think of one that we've done a lot of.

Lauren Langman: 4:46

We've done one. It's a. It's a tony robbins one actually, I can't remember the name of it. Yeah, but um, but yeah, you test and it tells you what personality well in the five, the five groups in the personality types.

Linda Hughes: 4:59

Of the personality types, agreeableness and neuroticism are the two that contribute most to being competitive, crazy and you would guess, neuroticism.

Lauren Langman: 5:08

Actually I can see it. Now you can see why I can't.

Linda Hughes: 5:11

The agreeabilism I didn't think well because if you are at the far end of disagreeableness, then you're quite aggressive, you're quite pushy, you're quite argumentative, all of that sort of stuff whereas the other end of agreeableness so if you've got a higher agreeableness scale score, then you're too agreeable and you're too like passive or passive, and but if you've got a low agreeable score, then you're going to be much more aggressive, much more argument so which one of those would be competitive?

Lauren Langman: 5:44

the low, yeah, because I'm saying I'm definitely more towards that space. I'm like, yeah, I would challenge something or I would try and like push something.

Linda Hughes: 5:52

That's that's that's the first thing you try. That plays into competitiveness and then neuroticism you agree about so?

Lauren Langman: 6:01

but that's a seesaw. Oh well, I see it and I see I suppose some of the people I think are the best in the sport that I compete in they're borderline nuts with it, like it's. It's done to a degree that I think wow, that's extreme. And I'm thinking of two competitors in particular I'm not going to mention names, but I'm thinking two competitors that they take it to a level that I can't even think about, like it's too crazy. For me. It's like their. Their level of um record keeping, for example, is nuts. For me. It's so extreme and I can really feel that neuroticism which I've never thought about before. So it's such an interesting word to put here.

Linda Hughes: 6:34

Yes, because it almost is borderline nuts, it is it is, but, but it has, like all of these things, it's a seesaw. So it'll have a positive side and a downside. So if you're too neurotic in terms of sensitivity, then you won't be particularly competitive because you don't want to be shown up. You don't want to, you know, you find it too stressful. You might be, you know, overwhelmed by anxiety or all of that sort of thing. So. So there's always a plus and a minus side to it all.

Linda Hughes: 7:06

But they're the two personality traits that play mostly into competitiveness. But then there's this dog sport side, because very often what happens is people get a dog and they want to do something with the dog. They've never done a dog sport. They get their dog and they want to teach the dog or teach the dog to behave itself. They go to a club or they go to a group or something and they find that they quite enjoy the relationship with the dog, the doing something with the dog, and then they get into a dog sport and then they're getting positive feedback for being competent at learning a skill. So they're feeling good about learning a skill, their dog's learning. This is all lovely, but the dog sport is.

Linda Hughes: 7:51

Then there's an opportunity to compete and then some people can get into quite a dilemma about that. I didn't get into this to compete and others are. Well, I want to compete because I want to measure myself against everybody else who's doing this dog sport. But I find it really hard. I get very anxious or I fall to pieces or I make mistakes in the ring or all of these things come up and there's a switch from there's an innate motivation for training a dog.

Linda Hughes: 8:20

You're learning a skill, so you're sort of it's a self-rewarding thing, you feel good about yourself, you're being a better dog trainer, the dog's learning, it's all lovely. But then there's the external reward. Do we want the prizes? Do we want the red ribbon is? Do we really want that? So then we go from an innate motivation to an external motivation. So the motivation is now the prize. So then it it switches. And that's where a lot of people struggle in a dog sport, because owning a dog usually is about affiliation, it's about relationship. And then when we say, oh, we're going to compete, then suddenly it's not about relationship anymore, it's about me against everybody else.

Lauren Langman: 9:07

Which is such a different space. Now I'm thinking about this and actually I say so often, actually I'm really not interested in rosettes, like the rosettes do not interest me at all, but I'm so interested in qualification. Qualification is like a massive driver and when I think about it it's a level of gamification. So that gamification, whereas I say like I'm not interested in Tetris or Nintendos or different types of like gamification of other things, but actually when I think about it I really am, because the gamification of my dog sport I'm very interested in, I'm all in, and whether that's qualifying for crafts, whether whether it's qualifying for Olympia, whether it's qualifying for any big event, really I love the gamification. So I really love the gamification, um, and I love the qualification.

Lauren Langman: 9:46

So that's again another extrinsic or external, but a different external to the rosette form. Like I could throw the rosette in the bin, like I'm not interested. I'm like quite like a photo. But again that's like a public perception thing, I imagine, and a level of as much as I don't think I'm an ego-driven person, I think there's a level of ego that's in there as much as I don't necessarily I'm an ego-driven person. I think there's a level of ego that's in there, as much as I don't necessarily always want to acknowledge that.

Linda Hughes: 10:06

But there's always in somebody. There's always that to some extent, and to be able to say, yes, it is ego-driven. I mean, I compete in obedience. Every dog I get in my mind is going to be a championship-level dog and that's where I go and I can get. You know, I have to be careful not to be sniffy about the lower classes, um, but but that's, that's my mindset and that's my ego. I am a championship handler, that's what I do, um, and that's ego. That's me getting some positive reinforcement and feeling good about myself. It. It builds my self-esteem. But there's nothing wrong with these things, as long as we're aware of them and we acknowledge them and that we don't become the competitor that stomps out the ring because they didn't win.

Lauren Langman: 10:54

It's such a brilliant topic and I really love this topic because it's I've had a few life-changing events, I suppose that have changed me from being that competitor and I was that competitor. So if you picked me up 20 years ago maybe, maybe 15 years ago I was definitely the competitor that could stomp out the ring in a grump. I was definitely the competitor that could go home and Matt and I would have a really horrible journey home because we just wouldn't talk and I would be in such a grump, not disappointed in yourself when you've done it wrong, or disappointed that your dog hasn't necessarily got the skill you thought they had, or disappointed that your training hasn't held up, or disappointed that the judge's course wasn't the course for you, or disappointed that you drove all that way. It wasn't necessarily worth it. And and the event that changed my life, I think, with competitive dog sports was losing Matt's dog and we lost him in a really tragic accident car accident and um, he was four, he was championship matt matt's hopes and dreams for dogs and hopes and dreams for the competing and hopes and dreams for all the energy he put in, like he'd done a great job. And he was not only his his first ever like bred dog for agility, so we bought him for agility. He was also a really talented dog and so that minute of losing him you know what it? It gave me a huge realization of what it was all about.

Lauren Langman: 12:09

And actually I didn't really care so much about the dog sport. I cared that we'd lost our friend and I cared that, um, I almost felt like I wish I'd done more, just having him as as our friend and thinking about his future in dog sports, and we always thought about how much he was going to win or how much he was going to do or. But you actually got the moment taken away from you and he was. He went too soon and I think that moment well, I know that moment changed my perception of dog sports, like innately, like done, finished, like I loved my dog sport, but I love my dog more and I love the experience. And then I also, every time I sat on the start line with a dog, I'd always think to myself you never know when this is your last time and you don't know what's going to change. And because you never think you're going to lose a four-year-old dog and I've lost three, I feel like, um, I lost my Tokyo at four and Brave had her accident at four. I didn't lose her, but you kind of lose a lot of what your hopes are and, um, we lost right at four, and so for me, you never know. You never know when your last opportunity is, and so I think it's just changed my perception on the gratitude I feel for being able to compete in a dog sport and the gratitude I feel for being able to have my best friend and I in that like privileged position, because it's a really privileged position to stand there with your um dog and to stand there with a dog who wants to work with you and wants to showcase with you and want because they don't opt in for this, no, it's us that opt in for this, and so I actually feel very humbled by my dogs and it's a different feeling to what I used to feel. Yeah, um, so I don't know. Yeah, I completely.

Lauren Langman: 13:37

I was that competitor that was grumpy, right, and I'm not anymore and I genuinely well done for changing that. Yeah, and I don't have any. If I go wrong, I'm able to laugh. Yeah, it not always instantly. Give me 20 seconds, sometimes it'll take me a second. Or a coffee sometimes it'll take me a pizza and sometimes there's some level of gratification with food. Um, but I I can always turn it around and I can always see the good side in it and I the only time I struggle, you know, is if a dog is injured. If a dog is injured in the ring, so it comes out lame because we're doing a fast dog sport, then I find that a little bit harder. I don't I'm not grumpy, I'm just disappointed that my dog's injured and I don't like that. But I think that on the whole I can normally come out smiling and I smile when I go wrong and I smile when I go right and I find the whole experience enjoyable. So that's a growth area, right, absolutely.

Linda Hughes: 15:07

A real, real growth area that's really making great strides toward being more balanced about what you do, because, you're right, we don't ask these dogs to do this for us.

Lauren Langman: 15:17

Whatever it is we do with them and the other thing that I work on with my dog, because in obedience we're so close to each other and so have to be so in tune with each other in each other's space the whole time on you.

Linda Hughes: 15:34

all the time that I have I do a lot of work in getting my mindset right for the dog before I compete. So that's doing everything in the lead up to going into the ring that gets me and the dog into the right space and in training, making that absolute strong connection with the dog at an emotional level, because they are sentient beings and they have feelings too and if they're tuned to us and we're tuned to them, then the relationship and the competitive relationship is much more powerful.

Lauren Langman: 16:08

What you say there is really big as well, because again, I can relate this back to riot. I owned right sister. She was called tiki, and tiki lived to a ripe old age of 16 17 she was. She lived a very good age to a very good age and and when we lost riot, I'd always compared riot and tiki. And tiki wasn't as good as riot, she wasn't as Riot, she wasn't as mentally strong, she wasn't as physically strong, she wasn't as well built, she didn't have the same heart, she was just different. She was a softer dog, much softer dog, and when we lost Riot it allowed me to see her.

Lauren Langman: 16:39

And as soon as I started to see her because she was always not as good, and suddenly I was grateful that she was always not as good, and suddenly I was grateful that she was with us because he wasn't, and suddenly the pressure dropped as well, because I realised that just the privilege of him or her was more important in the competition. I think she went on to win six championships and at the time I didn't know she'd ever compete because she was so nervous and she was so sensitive. And she won six championships and she was so sensitive and she won six championships and went to crafts, went to Olympia, went to all the big events and she had to jump way over a height because our rules were different then. And it's incredible to think that that's what changed it. And you're right, they're so emotionally connected Because I permanently told myself and her that we weren't good enough. She wasn't good enough and I wasn't happy with her and she felt that and she knew that and she knew she wasn't good enough for me and I knew she wasn't what I wanted at the time.

Lauren Langman: 17:33

And suddenly, when I changed the whole perception of the whole scenario and appreciated her for who she was and stopped trying to make her who she wasn't and stopped trying to force her a square peg round hole situation. And it's hard to admit that to yourself when you've actually just not been a good dog trainer for that dog and I'd never, ever been unkind to her. No, I was kind to her in training, but actually I was unkind in the sense I was trying to force her to be something she wasn't. And when you look back on that and you think to yourself like I'm grateful for all the lessons she gave me and most of all, and what good can come out of something so awful. That was it for me the ability to see the dog for who she is and not who she isn't well, I you know, I've got two completely different dogs at the moment.

Lauren Langman: 18:12

You couldn't have more opposite, like if you could combine those two. Yes, there is really the perfect dog, but actually they are the perfect dog in their own way they're, they're the two ends of the spectrum and and the.

Linda Hughes: 18:24

The dilemma I get into and I have to work out really hard, is I prefer one to the other? And the? And the one that frustrates me I have to pay extra attention to. To connect with her so at home. To connect with her, to have time with her, because it's very easy to push her aside and be with the one that I like best and and that's hard to admit sometimes, isn't it?

Lauren Langman: 18:48

and I think I like that, both of us at the stage of our careers in dogs and and life really, that actually there's been enough life experience that we don't have to try and pretend. There's enough life experience that you can just be real and say you know what I find you easier to connect it to than you. So I actually have to acknowledge this. Now I can hear a dog barking downstairs. They've got a training class going on right now. They've got quite a naughty but nice reactive dog who I know is is is difficult in the group and they're working with her and the owner and I bet that that's hard for that owner to connect with that dog right now. I bet that's hard for that owner to connect with that dog at any time. Actually, sometimes I think it's a hard dog to connect with and the interesting point here is, I think, for everybody, that it's finding something that that you can connect with. So what helps you to connect with the dog that you find harder to connect to?

Linda Hughes: 19:36

it's really important for me to spend time sitting with her and actually connecting with her. So even when I'm on a training session I will just sit down on the grass with her and it's just her and me and try to really make that real, valuable emotional connection. And the more I build that, the more I can hold on to that when she's doing things I don't like, so when she's noisy, she's stressy, I can still hold on to the real her, the the essence that is her, that it is a beautiful, lovable dog who you know just wants to work really, I just say, wants to please, and it's just the excitement and the arousal that kicks in, isn't it?

Lauren Langman: 20:18

um? And I think that's something that's really um good to acknowledge that there is finding something good, because when it gets tough, um, I remember when someone told me how to pick a puppy and they said always pick the puppy that you naturally are drawn to, because when it gets really tough, there's something that drew you there and you'll find them easier to forgive, got to like them, yeah, and and it is, and I think it's different having a. I mean you tell us, um, I mean, this is this is definitely your driven session here, because this is an expert area for you. But there's something that makes it very addictive. What we do right, something makes it very, very addictive and we want to keep going. Like what's that about?

Linda Hughes: 20:51

like it's so addictive um well, success is addictive, so it's it's a bit like when we reward our dogs, we we find it rewarding to achieve things, to, um, feel good about ourselves because we've mastered a task.

Lauren Langman: 21:06

But sometimes there is no success, or there's a lack of success for a while, like how does that work? And I think I know, but I want to check with you.

Linda Hughes: 21:13

Well, that's where grit comes in in you as a human being, because, I mean, I got drawn into my sport just because I had an absolutely brilliant dog. I wanted to do agility.

Lauren Langman: 21:28

I never got to do agility, um because, oh, it's gonna be mine, I, I went.

Linda Hughes: 21:35

I went to an obedience club and never left and went to the top in obedience and here I am, so so that's um but that that being in the club and being part of that community and being being um doing something I enjoy, something I'm passionate about- because I love the people that don't win.

Lauren Langman: 21:55

What about the people that don't win? So, what about the people that don't win? Because there are enough people in sport that don't win.

Linda Hughes: 22:00

They get a lot out of the community. Yeah, they get a lot out of the sense of supporting each other. They get a lot out of their relationship with their dog. So this thing about you know you always take the best dog home there's a bit of me that goes really sometimes I look at other dogs and think I'd quite like to take that one home. Yes, I'd rather like that one, that one won the ticket to go to crufts.

Lauren Langman: 22:27

Wouldn't that be great yep, pop him in the car, just hand it over. Uh in he goes, spare cage um but, but it's, it's that.

Linda Hughes: 22:38

It's that connection to the dog. So you go into a dog sport because you love dogs. There's never anybody in a dog sport who doesn't love their dogs. No, seriously. I mean there may be people who own dogs that don't love them, just as pets, but certainly if they're in a dog sport that they they love their dog.

Lauren Langman: 22:54

I couldn't think any any more highly of the dogs I'm working with, because you have a different relationship on every level, don't you? The relationship is very, very special. So what I'm thinking, then, is how about and again, you probably know more about this than I do when you've had a series of not winning, like what keeps people in it Series of not winning?

Linda Hughes: 23:14

Well, I've I've had um, five years since before lockdown, I've I've been sidelined. Yeah, I've been bringing on young dogs and it hasn't always worked out. Yeah, um, and I keep going because, a I love my dogs and, b I I want to be where, I want to be that championship handler again.

Lauren Langman: 24:21

I want to bring out the potential that I see in the dogs that I've got and that's going to be the feedback I'll get, the positive feedback I'll get when I can realise that potential, because certainly Ulla's got a huge amount of potential oh, amazing potential and interesting that I think mental game is going to be really important for you and her, and what I see for you and her is you're going to need to be really robust for her and not reading too much into her. You're actually gonna have to chill on it.

Linda Hughes: 24:49

my challenge is not getting disappointed. Yeah, absolutely, because I'm a bit of a perfectionist. Yeah, then, when things are not going along to plan, then it's very easy for me to be disappointed, and the dogs pick up on that, oh, and she'll pick up quicker than any dog Like she'll pick.

Lauren Langman: 25:04

she's very emotionally intelligent dog. She reads. She'd be a brilliant sheep dog because she reads quick. And if you think that the dogs were working, were bred to look after the sheep in the sense that they would read anything from a distance and anything from a group of I don't know a thousand ewes and they could see one that was lame to be able to siphon it off.

Linda Hughes: 25:27

Amazing work, I had an experience when I was with my trainer. We do sendaways, which is where we the dog goes from us to a mark in the distance. I was doing sendaways and when we're training, I do a thing called we call loading, which is between the legs, and it's a bit like a greyhound. Yeah, so like restraint, yeah, yeah. So I'm restraining and restraining and restraining and winding up and I have to bend over to do this and um. So I let her go and I stood up and she stopped halfway and looked around at me. My trainer said to me but you moved and I went, I didn't move, I didn't move, thinking, I didn't move my feet, but you actually just moved your body. I just moved my body and she knew, although she was going away, from me?

Lauren Langman: 26:11

Yeah, because she wasn't looking, but she still felt the energy. And I remember being very young I was probably, probably I got Bella when I was 14 or 15. I was young and I remember with that Bella was my first border collie and I remember sitting in a vehicle we're having fish and chips, the Elverton moors, near the big rock, and I remember watching these sheep suddenly moving from one spot to another and there she was in the car, laser, targeting them and moving them with her eyes like they're impactful, those dogs, those dogs that are emotionally intelligent or energetically intelligent, and I truly believe that. Now, thinking about dog sports and why people do it, how people do it, um, the reasons they do it, the people around them that do it, what else can you tell us, linda?

Linda Hughes: 26:56

well, I've been in a group this this week here having a lovely, lovely time with people who've come from all over the world because they love dogs and they also love absolute dogs. Um, and they just watching them, their, their faces light up their the delight in the group, the celebrations that have gone on in the group when people have achieved things with their dogs, and that joy is what keeps people infectious.

Lauren Langman: 27:25

Now what you say there is so so true and so so valuable and so so what I love about dog sports. But often at the top of dog sports, someone's back and like that. What's that like so at the top of dog?

Linda Hughes: 27:38

sports. Yeah, what's that like, what's that like? So that's a topic of. Yeah, what I call unhealthy competitiveness comes in. So there are people who want to win at all costs. There are people who are, who do what really human beings do in all walks of life and in all areas, which is become tribal, become cliquey. So there's the ins and the outs, there's the them and the us. They form alliances, which used to be my village against your village. So we get the alliances formed, so it's us against them. And all that starts coming at the top end of the sport, because the stakes are higher so much higher.

Lauren Langman: 28:25

It's like an elitism that's at that space and I I love my dog sport and at the same time there's parts of it I think I don't want to associate with that at all, like that's so not what I want to associate with. It feels very much like a childhood gang or a childhood like playground group of of kids and I sometimes listen or think that is so not where my head space is and I feel like in one part of my life I'm a grown-up and another part I'm like I do feel like I'm in a playground well, I'm, you know, being a very sensitive soul.

Linda Hughes: 28:52

I've struggled hugely with that recently and felt really sort of on the outside and I've had to really work on focusing on why I'm doing it and what I'm going to do to achieve what I want, regardless of all the peripheral nonsense that goes on. And that's about being confident in myself and walking my own path and staying away from that negative energy yeah, being in your own lane.

Lauren Langman: 29:22

I've got an example of that negative energy. I took a dog to Olympia about 10 years ago, nine years ago, and a friend of mine or a person I knew, not so much a friend but someone I knew, an acquaintance she had a sister, she had a sibling of my dog and I remember her saying, and I remember Matt saying to me do not, whatever you do, buy into that. Like don't buy into that, because you'll have lots of negative things to say. And she was just all she could do is keep saying negative things about the dog, negative things about the course, negative things. And matt actually got hold of me and moved me. He was like do not stand there, get over somewhere else, because that is infectious.

Lauren Langman: 29:54

Anyway, I won that round and I won the afternoon round, I won the overall day, probably one of the highlights of my life to win overall. I've had a few of those opportunities, which has been great classics done the same for me. Um, so has blink multi-times, which is really lovely to have those big winning experiences. They're quite special experiences, um, but what I would definitely say and I I really appreciate this is the effect of negative energy around you, because it's big, isn't it? It is big, it is it is big and it's real.

Linda Hughes: 30:21

You know, we can sort of sort of say oh no, no, everybody's in it to be friendly and and there is friendliness at some level, um, but there is a lot of negative energy and um, and that gets expressed at the nearer the top you get and what do you think that's about?

Lauren Langman: 30:36

like there are, there seem to be some people in there that seem to attract more of it or seem to want to be part of it, or seem to create it. I'm not sure what that's about. What's that about dog sports competitiveness? Where is all that from? Because that's the part I would prefer not to have.

Linda Hughes: 30:50

You have people come in that have that innate tendency to be over-competitive and tendency to be over competitive and certainly um, there are people in obedience who want to win everything and win all the um subsidiary prizes that might be going and clear up for the weekend, and I'm sure that they um, because you don't need to win everything to qualify. You know my world, I qualify and I move on.

Lauren Langman: 31:15

Oh, me too I qualify and then I get myself a prosecco, I grab some cheese, maybe some champagne, and we go home.

Linda Hughes: 31:21

I don't, I don't need any more red cards to decorate my downstairs toilet thank you very much.

Linda Hughes: 31:27

Toilet paper yes I don't need any more. But there are people who do. Yeah, there are people who clean up. Um that creates negative energy wrapped for them with other people, yeah. So then you get a you know division starting, um, but the near the prize becomes more important. The prize of the championship, the prize of going to cross or whatever the prize is, becomes so important that people start to behave in ways that are not very attractive, and then also in obedience particularly, we have the style issue.

Lauren Langman: 32:01

So that's the way dogs are trained that's a hard one as well, isn't it? Because it's so um, it's open to it, it's, it's. It is subjective.

Linda Hughes: 32:09

Yes yeah, and, and they're just a different ways that people choose to train dogs and different styles in which dogs work, and that's fine, you know. Let everybody do their own thing is what I say. But I know who might like my dog and who might not like my dog Because of the style, because of the style.

Lauren Langman: 32:27

And so I suppose as a bit of a roundup here, linda, because I think we could probably talk mental game and why people compete for a long, long time, but would you have any tips for people who are in competitive dog sports, going forwards and healthy things that maybe they can either do or think about or know or just even have the awareness of going forwards?

Linda Hughes: 32:46

so number one is prioritize your dog, so build the relationship with your dog, and when you go to a show or go to compete, it's about you and your dog, not about you and anybody else. So that's number one. Secondly, get your own headspace right, so don't worry about what other people are doing thinking when you go in the ring, this is the one thing that you get in a beat. It's a lot. Oh, people might be watching me. Actually, people are not watching you there, because they're all more interested in their own world than they are in yours. You know you're in the ring for three minutes. Who's going to be bothered? Not many people. So just don't worry about what other people are thinking, because they're usually thinking about what they're going to have for their lunch.

Lauren Langman: 33:33

And I love the idea of control the controllable. You just can't. You can't actually change what they're thinking anyway, even if you wanted to right, it's almost like you frustrate yourself, yeah, and you just wind yourself up and make yourself more anxious.

Linda Hughes: 33:47

Just don't worry about it. And then the other one, with obedience that I stress with people a lot is whatever happens in the ring, you are the judge of whether that was good, bad or indifferent. Not the judge of whether that was good, bad or indifferent. Not the judge Because, unlike agility, where you've either won it or not won it or whatever, or you've knocked a pole down or you haven't, there is a subjective element to obedience which means that the judge will score you.

Lauren Langman: 34:15

And that might not be the score that you would have liked to have given yourself.

Linda Hughes: 34:18

Oh, I'd definitely be giving myself 10 out of 10. That's right. But so you go in and you, you are pleased with what your dog's achieved. And if the dog has achieved and delivered on what the way they've been trained and against how you've trained them, then be pleased with that, regardless of where you come.

Lauren Langman: 34:32

I think it's brilliant. And I have one to add here which I think you'll you'll like, and, um, I've won at Crufts and I've had what I would call a slightly dodgy call on a on a seesaw and I felt, oh, I got away with that one. It was high, it wasn't probably my criteria. She pushed me, I went with what she gave me, because you're in the middle of Crufts, she can't stop her and put her back and the judge didn't mark me. So you go with what you get, like you go with it. That's what you were given and that's the hand you were dealt.

Lauren Langman: 34:59

And I think a lot of people would really be hard on themselves after that. And I feel that whether you win or you lose, um, you win some, you lose some, like I've. I've lost when I felt I've got the criteria and the judge hasn't seen it, and that's our subjective element. You're going as a human, not a robot, and I've won when I thought maybe I should have been called on something, even at the biggest height, like biggest arena. I've lost in the biggest arenas and I've won in the biggest arenas and I really believe you win some, you lose some. You do, and I feel like you have to have a good attitude to that, and I feel like the more you try and get angry, upset, disappointed or hold on to it, that's not very healthy, and so actually being able to, I suppose, let it go and being able to realize that's just part of being in dog sport or a competitive sport where you can't control those things you can't control it.

Linda Hughes: 35:45

Yeah, so I mean I've I've had situations where I've done what I thought was a stonking round with my young dog. I don't look at the scores always because we do scent later on and I don't want to, I don't want to give the dog any anxiety about scent because I'm leading the class or anything, so I don't look. I went back and I did scent and I saw he's. He's done really well. He was in, he was in the novice class and I went to the scoreboard and to have a look at my score. I was nowhere near any rosette whatsoever and it was like oh, okay, then Didn't quite read that one.

Lauren Langman: 36:20

That's so interesting, isn't it? Isn't it interesting really, isn't that fascinating? I mean, the thing for us is that ultimately, we're privileged. We love our dogs. I couldn't imagine doing anything more fun. And Matt often says to me you're so lucky, you've got such passion for it. Like you've got passion, you've got something. You're so lucky, you've got such passion for it. Like you've got passion, you've got something you're really passionate about is I wish I had something I was that passionate about, and I think that is something high five, I'm very, very lucky, because it gets you out of bed in the morning. Well, I I had lost my mojo.

Linda Hughes: 36:46

I mean in competing, I've really lost my mojo, and it's only in the last year that I've just got it back again, and now we're on track on target, on target.

Lauren Langman: 36:55

So with that mind, some of my goals I'm going to share, because the more I share them, the more I know I can help to realise them. So some of my goals I have got. Wild at Crufts. She is a novice dog at Crufts. Wild is different to Skittle.

Lauren Langman: 37:11

I naturally find myself more drawn to a dog like Skittle, who's very, very able and very, very talented. With Wild you have to work it differently. She's not as easy to sort of um have working and she's not physically as capable either. And I find that quite hard when a dog some dogs are more physically capable than others fuller versus senzi and and wild versus skittle, and skittle being the more of the capable one really. But I feel like we can go clear in that environment. I can't control what the other dogs do, but I want to go clear in that environment.

Lauren Langman: 37:40

So she's qualified for crafts. She's going to crafts in March. I think that's quite exciting and let's see what she's got really. And then Skittle I can't wait to qualify her for crafts, qualify her for Olympia, which I think will be a brilliant environment for her because it's a big, open course environment. She's a fast little snake and then get her to crafts in 2026 because she can go in the novice in 2026 and then championship in 2027. So, um, I think they'll will be drinking champagne is my goal, linda. What are your goals, okay?

Linda Hughes: 38:08

so I've always been very reluctant to set goals, but I have now. So um ulla, who's the one with the potential, huge potential. She hasn't even competed yet, well, she hasn't even been entered, so she'll start in novice, but my goal is she'll be at Crufts in 2027. Yes, high five.

Lauren Langman: 38:31

You're going to get there in 2027. And we know that that is still a push. It is a push Because there's a lot for an obedience dog to do to be able to get there. It's not like you're going in a baby dog class, you're going in a championship level. And how about senzi? What sort of goals have you got?

Linda Hughes: 38:45

so I at the moment. My goal is to get her into the ring at the start of this season, um and for her to complete a round without making any noise brilliant.

Lauren Langman: 38:56

That's it. So to complete, so, something so and again, different dogs, different horses. For her, actually, the easier the round, or the round that doesn't wind her so much is a better round. You don't want to give her a round where she gets frustrated. No, whereas with Ulla, we need to challenge her enough and not over face her and at the same time, put her in a position where she can get to where we need to get her to and keep her confident. So I think it's really exciting. It's really really exciting, yes, exciting times ahead, that is, and it's lovely, it gives purpose, it gives huge purpose. And the other thing, though, that even when we set goals, actually sometimes we might need to reassess and check in. And I know that you've got the arena here, you've got all of our support and and we're definitely behind you, so I'm excited. I'm excited both all girls at cruft.

Lauren Langman: 39:39

So this episode, we've covered a lot. We've covered some mindset, we've covered why we compete and what even that genetic makeup might be, or where did that even come from? And I certainly think mine came from probably a little bit of hardship and maybe a little bit of struggle and a little bit of wanting something that we didn't have, and I think the interesting thing is that there's lots we can control around mindset. There's lots we can control around competitiveness, and there's certainly people we might want to align with and there's certainly people we might not want to align with, and actually we can control that. Right, linda, absolutely right. I'm excited. I'm excited for the future. Thank you so much for joining me. That was this episode of the Sex and Squirrel podcast. I hope you join me for the next episode and remember stay sexy.