Lauren Langman: 0:09

Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. Okay, so today we are talking environments, environmental training and where you should, and maybe shouldn't, go with your dog. Now I'm joined by the wonderful Dave. Dave, I know you've worked dogs in the forces effectively operational dogs so environment is probably more important to you than anyone, because you're going to need your dogs to search. It's some pretty difficult spaces. Now I know that your dog searched at the Queen's Funeral. What kind of environment is that that you're going into?

Dave Hibbert: 0:53

because it's a pretty big environment, when you think about it, for a dog that maybe has never seen anything like that yeah, I mean, environments like that are huge and and extremely challenging because you've not just got the environment to deal with but you've got all of the other things that are going on. So, like you say, at the Queen's funeral, for example, we were searching Westminster Abbey prior to the funeral and you've got the TV crews setting up, you've got scaffolding going up, you've got loads of different people coming and going, you've got trolleys come in, lorries come in you, you name it, it was there and it's it's. It can be really challenging if you haven't got the right dog who's gone through the right training to make sure they are robust in those environments.

Lauren Langman: 1:35

So, absolutely, the key for any good dog, whether it's a working dog or a pet dog, for me is all about those environmentals now, I know the genetics certainly play a part, and as do you, but ultimately we've got the genetics we've got and we're working with the dog that we've got. Um, and so personally, if I was going to have a new dog, I want to know the genetics of the parents. I look really carefully at my parents and what I'm going to do, um, in terms of like, I want a strong dog and a comfortable dog. But I also know that you can do a lot with your environmental training, and I know that you're doing that right now with a youngster. I've certainly done so much of that right through.

Lauren Langman: 2:11

If you look back over our recordings, pup to Perfection was maybe 17 years ago 16 years ago, many years ago that we filmed Pup to Perfection and we were doing exactly that. We were doing environmental training and we were out and about doing environments. Now I think there's a difference between doing environmental training and socialising, and I know there's this massive, massive thing about having a dog that's social, and I think for you and me, we turn that on its head and we'd say we probably want the opposite. We don't want a social dog. We actively want dogs who are not going to rush up to people or go over and say hi to stuff or or see another dog and be like wagging across the street and really distracted by them. But we do want a dog that's environmentally robust. So maybe talk through a couple of the environments you've been training in recently, dave, and what you've been doing in those environments with your young dog, who's out there learning all about it.

Dave Hibbert: 3:00

Yeah, I think you make a really good point. Yeah, I think you make a really good point. This, this view of socialization is is something we really need to tackle because, as you rightly say, you know, we don't need dogs running over to other dogs and people, and so I kind of say the environmentals also covers that sort of thing. So you know, at the moment, and certainly when you've got a new dog or a new puppy, a lot of the stuff, the the kind of first steps, for me would be done at home. So, you know, games like cardboard chaos are really good, um, because you want the dog to start to learn and be aware of their body, and you know when they stand on things that are rocking, or stand on things that are stumbling around, or there's a bit of noise when bowls are clanging. So I like to set up little kind of assault courses in the garden to start with. So I'd have, you know, their metal food bowls, I'd have like a ball pit, I'd have cardboard boxes, wobble boards, uh plant pots, and just get the dog basically moving around those different uh obstacles to start to make them more body aware but also confident when, and so that would be my starting point and then, once we've kind of built that confidence in an environment, they know I'll take them out.

Dave Hibbert: 4:18

But but this is the real key bit now, because I think sometimes people rush to take them everywhere and everywhere and not really consider what, what we're actually trying to achieve.

Dave Hibbert: 4:29

So you know I'll take the dog. Their first experience of going to a train station would be a quiet train station on a Sunday afternoon where there's not many people about, there's not many trains come in so they can get used to going over the stairs, up the escalator. Potentially if I'm picking them up up the lift, you know there might be one train that comes past. Because if you suddenly take the dog to, you know I live in Birmingham. Because if you suddenly take the dog to, you know I live in Birmingham. So if I suddenly took the dog to Grand Central in the centre of Birmingham with, you know, stacks of people and stacks of trains and all these things going on, you know quite quickly you could put the dog in a position where they're going to have quite a bad experience. And what I always say for environmental exposure is you just want a neutral experience, you don't want it to be highly rewarding, but you don't want it to be.

Lauren Langman: 5:18

You know negative and punishing to them I think you hit the nail on the head there. I really love that you say neutral. It should just be a neutral experience. I want neutral and I would say, if I was to pick some of my best dogs or best experiences with dogs tokyo what I loved with him is he's very neutral. So if someone came in the door, he's pretty neutral. If he was walking, he's pretty neutral. He could go down through the car park and ignore 20 dogs and walk in the arena, didn't even look to go, greet anyone. He's just very neutral. And I would say I want a dog who's dog neutral people neutral and really environmental, um, or environmentally neutral. So a dog who's just able to go yeah and like, yeah and like yeah and, and then when you ask them to do something.

Lauren Langman: 5:54

Can you search a? Yeah cool, I can search it. Or can you search that person? Yeah, cool, but they don't need to lick the person or wee up the person or bite the person. There's no extreme Like I like that. They're not extreme, they're level. And so you're working with and this is one of the things I realised working with you was that the best police dogs are actually very happy, confident dogs. The best police dogs are not on the edge and nervous and reactive and worried and lungy, and those are typically the dogs I imagine people want to donate to you. Those are not the dogs you actually want. The dogs you actually want are the confident, cool-like dogs.

Lauren Langman: 6:25

So I suppose, again, environmentally, what I'm going to say is another tip would be you want to keep it cool. If at any point it feels like stressed or really strained or really anxious or really worried, I probably would say maybe we've pushed it too far or we've done a bit too much, or we've maybe asked them to go into the Grand Central rather than the local, like Oakhampton Station. I can tell you now, dave, oakhampton Station, perfect for no one. Like literally, it's got like one train every half an hour and no people in a little local coffee shop. So it's a real uh, it's a real funny place, um, but definitely, definitely. I think a lot of people go and want to hit that tick sheet and go through like 500 places in one day with the man in the special big hat and the walking stick and everything else. And actually for me I don't want any of those things, I just want my dog to be cool in the environment, cool in the environment, cool in the environment, cool in the environment.

Dave Hibbert: 7:16

Yeah, I think I always preach. You know, I want the dog confident in their own skin and that's the number one criteria for me, whether it's a pet dog or a working dog, but certainly from a working perspective it's really important. And the word I like to use is ambivalent. So the dog is completely ambivalent to everything that goes on in their life.

Dave Hibbert: 7:36

Um, because, like you say, I don't, I don't want the dog, you know, too aware of their surroundings.

Dave Hibbert: 7:43

I just want the dog to think this is just normal um, and that's why it's important when we're building environmental kind of training, we take a, you know, a real step-by-step process, um, where we're actually building this up. So, like I said, I'd start on a sunday when it's quiet, then maybe just build up to a bit busier, a bit busier, a bit busier always at the same train station to start with. So the dog gets used to the surroundings, but this time they might see more people, they might see more trains, they might have people with push chairs, bikes and just slowly start to introduce this. So actually, by the time we get to taking the dog to grand central, they've already experienced lots of the things in isolation and now it's just the case of putting it together and proofing, you know, in a in a busy environment, um. So it is very important you build that up as a step-by-step process and you're really thoughtful around how you expose the dog to certain things.

Lauren Langman: 8:37

Now I know with our 10 Days to Puppy Success course that we actually run through environments. We talk through environments, but let's just catch up quickly on some of our favourite environments. Let's just do a bang, bang, bang, bang and catch up on those. And, like I said in the Puppy Success 10 days to puppy success, just 27 pounds, absolute bargain. Lifetime access, um, but, but dave, um. One of my random favorite environments to go to would actually be and this is you inspired uh, some sort of industrial estate, and I'd like to go to some sort of industrial state, particularly where it's a bit dusky and a bit dark and dimpsy, and I would just scatter feed my dogs, and I know that we might train differently. Sometimes you'll use probably more toys than I might and I might use more food, but for me it's just a good experience in a novel environment and I typically would pick a time when it's dusky. Over to you. What's one of your favourite environments?

Dave Hibbert: 9:28

or quick environment, tennis um, a motorway service station. So I really like taking the dogs to a motorway service station because you've got a lot of slow moving traffic and there's lots of areas where you can move into and out of, based on the level of your dog's kind of confidence, so you can be right out of the way and just let the dog experience the noise of the cars through to literally being on you know the side of the road where their people are almost leaving the cars, through to literally being on you know the side of the road where they're people are almost leaving the service station a little bit so you start to get a bit more faster flow traffic.

Lauren Langman: 10:02

So yeah, I take the dogs to the service station quite a lot what I'm shocked at with the service stations and I've only just started doing this. I've been taking Skittle to some shows on her own, so none of the other dogs have come with us. Everyone else has stayed at home and that's because been traveling in the horse box. To cut a long story short, liza wants to go to horse shows and we want to go to dog shows and the only way to do it is all go together and then split up somehow. So Skittles has been coming alone.

Lauren Langman: 10:23

But what I've realized? And then when I stop at services whereas I normally don't mind leaving all the dogs in the car, often she services all these dogs are in and out. So now I'm in and out, so actually you can get them to the point that actually they're in the services with you checking out the food stations, checking out the bathrooms, checking out the um, the sofas, checking out anywhere. So yeah, service stations now have taken a whole new level, in the uk at least, where you can take your dog in with you everywhere, like even the bathroom. There's skittle trotting into the bathroom and being told she has to down and wait. But it's great practice and it's great life skills for me and I also really like for her that it puts her in a space where, um, she has to offer additional control than what she would do maybe a dog show or a dog event so she actually has to be a real model citizen, um, and so it's great. Yeah, so services go on.

Dave Hibbert: 11:16

Another one of yours, dave, heading to you um well, train stations, as I say, is another big one. I mean, I mean my two. My two big ones would be train stations and service stations, because there's so much variety in terms of meeting different people, meeting different dogs, like there's so much that goes on at the train station and the service station. It gives you real good exposure. And then again there's different types of floors, so the slippy floors, tile floors, concrete, metal, you know, and that's really important as well because you want the dog to be confident on all of those different things.

Lauren Langman: 11:49

Nice, really nice, and then I'll give my final one. So one of my final places I love to go is actually supermarket car parks, and I know that sounds super odd. I actually don't mind shopping, but often I'll send Matt shopping. I'll be like you go grab the nachos and whatever else that we're eating. That's really naughty and I'll hang out in the car park for 10 minutes. 10 minutes later my dog's exhausted because there's a lot to take in and, like you said, slow moving traffic.

Lauren Langman: 12:11

People are really not interested in your dog as well. I like people that are not interested in my dog for environmental training, because it allows me to not have an over social dog. I actively don't want my dog speaking to people, and I think this is where you and I differ to probably majority of the world, where they want the dogs going up and speaking to people. I really don't. I know you don't. We don't want dogs to be overly social. It actually isn't in our interest to have them overly social, and so for me I don't need them like disliking it, but I also don't need them really seeking it out, and so for me, car parks are fantastic. So, dave, we've talked environmental. We know it's important for young dogs. We know it's important for older dogs. If you've got a choice, when do you start it? If you had the choice, day one.

Dave Hibbert: 12:51

So as soon as, as soon as you can. So and this is quite controversial, um, but you know, if you've got a puppy, very often the vets will tell you never take the dog out until he's had his second vaccination and all this kind of stuff. However, you know, one of the things when I was running uh, the puppy development program for for police forces was we we would actively get our puppies out after that first vaccination because you know it's so important for the dogs to be exposed to as much as possible in a controlled way than just keeping them cooped up, you know, at home waiting for this period I'm going to be even more controversial and say mine often haven't had their first vaccination and I'm still trying to get them out and about.

Lauren Langman: 13:35

Whether that's in the vehicle and you lift the boot and you let them listen, or the the risk that you have of um, lepto and parvo and all the other things from like air and transmission, that way is is is really zero and because you've got them just watching things from the boot, but the experience that they have is massive, like absolutely massive.

Lauren Langman: 13:53

So for me me, you're preaching to the choir. No, I'm not going to put them in a place where there's like rat infested water or where there's a known case of lepto, and I'm not going to walk them around the middle of like Birmingham city centre, but I am going to take them to the Moorland and have a picnic in the back of the car and let them watch. Or I am going to go to a supermarket car park and let them just like listen into the sounds, and I think it's really important or put them on a backpack or like don't you have to put them down for them to to be exposed to something? So, um, yeah, dave, I massively agree. Environmentally, I think it's it's rich. So any final tips you'd give anyone on environmental training for dogs before we head over and out?

Dave Hibbert: 14:33

well. This is so my favorite tip, and this doesn't necessarily go down well with everybody. So one of the things I like to do when I've got a puppy is when I'm doing environmental training, I'll put my overhead beats headphones on and I won't necessarily be listening to anything, but it's a really good way of not having to engage with people when they try and speak to your puppy and come over and talk to you so I just pretend I can't hear anyone and I'm on a mission walking. So what I always say if you're going to get a puppy, buy yourself a set of Beats headphones so you can drown out the world trying to say hello to your dog.

Lauren Langman: 15:08

I love it that they have a brand as well. Many other brands available, but Dave recommends Beats Dave. In addition to that, you have to say before we leave, you have to say puppy once more.

Dave Hibbert: 15:18

Puppy.

Lauren Langman: 15:19

It's done. It's done. So, guys, that was this episode of the Sex in Squirrel podcast. I hope you learned loads about environment and also maybe the controversial word socialization. Join us for next week, where we are going to share with you something pretty exciting.