Lauren Langman: 0:09

Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. Cavaletti oh my god, it's actually one of my favourites and it really is a favourite for me because I've watched and I've seen and I've been first-hand sort of part of seeing a dog develop not only in their brain, not only in their, but also in their concept training, I suppose, of confidence and problem solving and resilience and mental toughness. Like I love Cavaletti, I couldn't love it anymore.

Jamie Hogg: 0:52

No, it's brilliant, it's amazing and it's a really cool one to watch where a dog is at. I think some dogs pick it up really quickly and other dogs really test your teaching ability.

Lauren Langman: 1:03

I would suggest would suggest absolutely and your resourcefulness and your flexibility and your down and you really have to break it down, don't you dogs literally break it down? And I'm thinking also I've used it in lots of different circumstances, but I'm thinking back to when we filmed Cavaletti and we were filming with Tokyo, actually our late dog and he was uns, he wasn't right, he was confident circuits. Actually he wasn't right on a on a sort of a cavaletti grid. He wasn't, he was off a beat on a on a confident circuit or a cavaletti beat. And it can also help you with gait analysis. It can also help you with looking at sort of spinal flexibility. It can also help you looking at how you might strengthen and condition an athlete, but also how you might look after an older dog or a geriatric dog or give them something to think about. I suppose similar to when you're in a residential home and there's lots of different puzzles to solve Effectively.

Jamie Hogg: 1:52

It's another puzzle, yeah definitely yeah, being able to pick up Well Cavaletti is going to be one of the first kind of rehabby type things Somebody like a's going to give you or something if your dog has an injury. It's going to be one of the main things. So making sure that your dog is fit and able to do it and not learning it as they're as they need to know it before there's a problem, don't they?

Lauren Langman: 2:15

they need to know before they've got a problem. And I'm thinking brave, yeah, so brave. For those of you don't know, brave is my border collie. She had a spinal accident. The spinal accident was pretty horrific. It was just sprinting across the field and she went sprinting across that field and bang was down, rehabbing her back to walking. I was talking to a lovely friend, tanya, I don't know if you remember with her lovely spaniel that had IBDD and they still haven't got her walking, which is just traumatic. It's really traumatic. And that's six months in with brave.

Lauren Langman: 2:43

She actually was back to walking within about four weeks and so, as much as when anyone sees her you might think she's a little bit drunk looking, she's ataxic it would be the description of it she actually is very, very good, like she can.

Lauren Langman: 2:55

She can go to the toilet standing and squatting, rather than having to be effectively made to go to the toilet, which will be what some dogs are living when they're in any sort of spinal case, and sometimes they do get full use again and sometimes they don't. But what I'm thinking when I think back to Cavaletti is Cavaletti. She knew it way before. So when she started to come back into it, although her leg wasn't working, you could see that her brain was going. I remember this, so her brain remembered it, but her leg didn't work because she has no feeling in her back, left leg and or very little feeling and no deep pain response that we can see, really, and so I think that I'm grateful she already knew it before she ever needed it definitely, definitely, and I think that I would be grateful that all my guys know it.

Jamie Hogg: 3:37

If anything was to happen, it's there isn't it. It's there, the foundations are there and I think them just having the ability to be able to do that. And then if you, like you said, with Tokyo picking up those tiny little things, you can just pick up, and it wasn't like he was lame, you didn't see it out when he was out walking or anything like that. It was only within that exercise that you picked it.

Lauren Langman: 4:02

You'd see like a hitch and you'd go you just look off a beat or you just hitch there.

Jamie Hogg: 4:06

Yeah, yeah.

Lauren Langman: 4:07

Incredible, incredible really that you could spot it that easily. Now, thinking through the types of dogs that you think Cavaletti helps or it suits, who does it suit? Oh my God everybody, everybody, definitely.

Jamie Hogg: 4:19

I think throughout the badge we mention how to adjust it for, like, if it was like an older dog or if it was like a really teeny, tiny dog and stuff. We've got lots of little ideas that we can make it. Make it so it's workable for those guys and, yeah, for any dog, for puppies, you can start doing the foundation training straight away, because that will help you leaps and bounds in the future then, won't it?

Lauren Langman: 4:42

Now, what is Cavaletti? Let's just actually answer. What is it? For someone listening? They're thinking Cavaletti sounds like some sort of spaghetti, sounds like something you might eat in Italy. What actually is it? I?

Jamie Hogg: 4:51

think Cavaletti, I think I Googled it, but don't quote me.

Lauren Langman: 4:54

but I think it means little horse, so it came from the horse world, nice, carry on, I'm going to go read it, read it, keep going, google it just in case.

Jamie Hogg: 5:01

No, keep going, you're good. So it means little horse and it came from the. It came from the horsey world, so it was all to help horses with their gait and it then filtered through to the dog world. So sports, I would say it's more of a like come from that area, but I think that cavaletti should be an every dog and, like we've said with the, with the naughty but nice dogs, it's amazing for them being able, like like a dog that's reacting to their environment, for them to be able to float through Cavaletti. It's one massive work on their dimmer switch, so them being able to control their level of arousal and just being able to have more proprioception, have more flow to their movement. So they're kind of not so erratic, because sometimes with reactive dogs you just get a constant of that kind of reactive motion within their body, isn't it like?

Lauren Langman: 5:56

jagged motion. That kind of hits the same place as the emotion, yeah, doesn't it? Often, yeah, and cavalettietti work involves a series of raised obstacles, usually poles, to improve balance, coordination strength. These exercises are designed to enhance various aspects of training, including rhythm, suppleness and stride. It challenges balance, forcing it to adjust at times with the steps and maintain stability over poles. It strengthens muscles, top line, particularly back legs, and overall athleticism. The exercises encourage them to stretch through their body. Improving suppleness and range of motion helps them develop proper form. Brilliant for transitions, great for novelty, brilliant mental stimulation. Keeps them engaged, helps to be interested, helps to keep the interest in training processes. Incorporates changes in training processes. Incorporates changes in gait. Incorporates changes in speed. Incorporates changes in direction. Literally massive riders can also work. Oh, this is a horse one, so riders can also work with cabaletti to improve their own balance. Is used for equestrian disciplines, including dressage, show jumping and eventing. So if we translate that for dogs, I mean it's loads of mechanics like your dog training mechanics.

Jamie Hogg: 7:07

Also a massive one for for dogs I was gonna say horses and a massive one for dogs is forward focus and task focus, keeping them focused on a task, and it is something like I wouldn't take a full.

Jamie Hogg: 7:18

Well, I probably have taken a full set of cavalletti out on the moors, but I, you know, we've got to be jamie weirdo up the moors, you've got to have. You know, there's like there's some exercises within the badge that are just a couple of like four cones and two poles, yeah, and you can take that out and about with you and again, that's screaming to your dog that that is a. This is, this is what we've done at home, this is what I can do here, yeah, and it's amazing to watch. Well, it's amazing to watch one of my naughty but nice dogs. That was one of the exercises that I took up the most and there was some sheep outside the van and it was just like, do I get you out now or not? Because I trained the others because they were all coping with the sheep, but she does like sheep, so getting her out and then doing she's working on the game she knows, but with the struggle around her.

Jamie Hogg: 8:07

And she was amazing.

Lauren Langman: 8:10

I think that's it, isn't it? It actually gives them a task to focus on now. Looking here, it's like straight lines, curves, grids, combination exercises that's all of what we do, isn't it? And when I listen to this, I'm like, oh, I want to do more of it, but we actually do do it most days, like we do it most days here, and I think that's really important to acknowledge that this is something our dogs do a huge amount of.

Lauren Langman: 8:29

Now, what would be one of your light bulb moments in training Cavaletti and I'm going to give you one of mine, and you've got a minute to think on it and one of mine was my dog was missing their contact in agility, and she was regularly missing her contact in agility. Her name's Wild and her movement was off. And so my light bulb moment was to move the Cavaletti down next to the dog walk to remind her of the movement pattern that I wanted, and the movement pattern I wanted was split feet. I moved her down with Jamie. I said, look, jamie, she can do it great upstairs, but we need to move it down to the next to the dog walk. She needs to be able to do this in the arena.

Lauren Langman: 9:01

And lo and behold, she couldn't do it in the arena, could she? What changed? It was her arousal. Her arousal, her arousal was through the arena roof and the arena roof is tall and so it was. It was saying it was a, it was a, it was a tall order to ask her to focus in that environment. The big thing I was suggesting, and I would say with her and the cabaletti, was that also took a good couple of weeks to work through.

Jamie Hogg: 9:20

Yeah, it wasn't breaking it down to small sections, I mean it's not dissimilar to.

Lauren Langman: 9:25

I'm going to give the example just because it's very relevant to me. So sorry to take over for a second, but this morning I walked out in the woods. It was tipping down. Oh my God, it was tipping down. It was bitter and horrid and tipping down. Anyway, walking out and the dogs doing great, brilliant lead work, absolutely gorgeous.

Lauren Langman: 9:40

I've got four dogs off lead, one dog on lead, you can guess and I turn around to go home and flip that dog toes and she is on a toe and I'm like I really don't have time to stop, start walking now and do all my stroking of the lead and playing around and fiddling and doing pressure. I want to pick her up and put her under my arm and run home, and yet I know it's the wrong thing to do, but I also know letting a toe is the wrong thing to do and go canny cross, which is what she'd like to do. She, like clipper on the back, clip and say mush, and it's the same thing. It's the arousal.

Lauren Langman: 10:09

Sometimes in certain circumstances or spaces will take over. Hers is heading home. So when she's heading home, for whatever reason, I think it's probably that she thinks she's going to go to the barn to do agility. I think it's always in her head that, even though we've never done agility soaking wet and after a walk out in the moors or out on the bridle path, optimistic or ever the optimist and so I suppose it's the same thing. The, the change in the arena, the change in the scenario, the change in the place that you're training them, I think makes a really, really big difference.

Jamie Hogg: 10:36

What's been one of your light bulb moments so I think in the beginning, when I started doing Cavaletti, I was focused on the having six poles out and feeding in between the poles, which there's nothing wrong with that that You're building up confidence within the polls. But what I kind of thought afterwards was or what I've learned along the way is actually playing around with your end articles is just as important as building confidence through. So sometimes I don't know, sometimes I miss you, miss those things with training. Sometimes you're so focused on the or what someone's told you to do, or the task and actually you might be 10 steps backwards and I was always racing forwards, which is what I tend to do massive, massive, massive learning.

Lauren Langman: 11:19

I think these light bulb moments are really great. I'm going to give you another light bulb moment. Jamie will give you another one. One of my others was how much you can adapt it to suits different sizes and heights of dogs, and I actually learned this when we were filming the badge for cabaletti. If you haven't already seen it, try and grab it. I think there's a sale on right now. If there's not a sale on right now, there'll be a sale really soon, or it's worth it anyway. Go and grab it. It's a brilliant, brilliant badge. To get hold of it. We teach you from zero to here, right from the beginning, all the way through. We give you some great, great exercise and the resource where you can look at how you build all of the badge as well. But I, what I really, really loved is how we adapted, and what you taught me, jamie, was where I could use the little cones or where I could flip them on a different side, or where I could actually be probably more resourceful than I thought I could be.

Jamie Hogg: 12:00

Yeah, it was a really good moment for me to realize how I had some dash hounds staying at one point. I was just like let's do Cavaletti. And then I got the Cavaletti out and I was just like let's do Cavaletti.

Lauren Langman: 12:51

And then I got the Cavaletti out and I was just like, oh, it's like some sort of like grand national hurdle for them, isn't it, when you put out beer?

Jamie Hogg: 12:56

I didn't want to leave the poles loose on the ground because I'm going to ask these dogs to kind of go over them within sequence and I didn't want them to roll on it and hurt any, because obviously we're meant to be doing this for fitness and for confidence and, and we don't want to injure anyone, no dash found was harmed. So anyway, I don't know like an idea, a light bulb moment was oh yeah, so if we flip the cones on the side, but still. Then there was the gapping issue, but it didn't matter because they were just learning it for the first time and it was just the momentum of going through it, as long as they were low enough for them to step over. That was my main priority Low and secure, wasn't it?

Lauren Langman: 13:31

We wanted them secure, so it was great.

Jamie Hogg: 13:33

But then we've got many more ideas to help them with spaces, keeping them close together Like stuff spaces, sometimes to make the space less.

Lauren Langman: 13:39

There's so many different bits that you're going to love and you really will love them, and the ideas there Go on another light bulb for you.

Jamie Hogg: 13:45

So I think foundations, foundations, foundations always to get the fancy stuff like I love, and I loved filming the s-shaped cavaletti and I love that and I love watching them go through it. I love them, the women there. I love the way they weight shift as they turn the corner, that they bend away from you. But I tried doing it in the past and I was just like it was tried to build it up and then it would like you'd go on to do something else or whatever. But after having the foundations far more solid, doing that was easy then. So going back to those foundations and going back to those foundations Foundation, foundation, foundation the confidence that the dogs have to have to go through that and keep that forward focus and to bend away from you or push away from you is really cool.

Lauren Langman: 14:33

It's brilliant and gorgeous to watch. Watch like the fluidity and the flow when you watch it. You will love it. Now for you favorite dog for like use and purpose, like as in what, what's the purpose and the use? And I'm going to give an example here.

Lauren Langman: 14:44

I've used it already wild agility, dog agility, top level. So she's crafts level, so quality, quality, qualify for crafts at this level. Like there's no point you going to that event and missing the dog walk. There's no point like let's not go to the event and miss the dog walk. As in to qualify, you're not going to qualify with a missed dog walk and or very, very, very unlikely to. And so for me I loved using this to remind her how she should move. So it was a reminder of this is how you move. I absolutely loved it and for me it was like a real light bulb and the more that she could do of it, the more it helped her to understand how to move better. So instead of hopping, so if you've got a skippy dog, often like Jack Russell Terriers, or the way they'll hold that little patella leg, these types of dogs, I think Cavaletti's fantastic for skips or bunny hops, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

Jamie Hogg: 15:33

For how about you like favorite dog to use it for or like where you see a real purpose, like generally just having that knowing what your dog's normal is, knowing what your dog's normal is, yes, and if then there is something slightly off being like that day we saw in tokyo, we knew straight away.

Jamie Hogg: 15:47

We were like no, this isn't normal for him definitely definitely, and I think if you know what you're, you know if you're having fun out in the back garden doing doing the cavalletti and you know what your dog's normal is, then having you know you're you're that so so much far advanced in being able to go there is something off there and maybe having the ability to be able to record your sessions as well, because with some dogs they're very speedy going through it, aren't they?

Lauren Langman: 16:13

yeah, oh god, lord skittle.

Jamie Hogg: 16:15

And wild. I've got a good eye of these things, but even they can hide stuff, Unless you slow it down. So having the ability to one, it's good for your training skills. You can video your mechanics.

Lauren Langman: 16:28

And review quickly.

Jamie Hogg: 16:30

Two, you can see what the dog's gait is doing. And three, you've got evidence to show your vet. Oh it's brilliant.

Lauren Langman: 16:36

Yeah, evidence to show. I often take the video with me to a chiropractor. He might be listening. He's going to be like, oh my god, you're crazy lady, because I must send him so many videos and I must show him so many videos. And for me, that offbeat movement shows me something. It might be tight sartorius. It might be a tight hamstring. It might be tight glue. It might be something's a little strained. It might be back is sore. It might be pelvis is out. There's so many things. Just be at an angle. Yeah, I mean, give the example of wild going through recently, because wild's been a little bit off, yeah, and that could be hormonal. That could be like post-season, because they're a little bit lax post-season. It could be that she's had an injury. It could be that she's just had a bit of a strain gone. What have you seen?

Jamie Hogg: 17:19

so it's just that she goes in at an angle rather than going straight and that her head is slightly to one side, so she's holding that head a little bit shorter. But again, you'd only be able to see that if you're slowing it down and you're filming from the right angle, you'd have to have quite a good eye.

Lauren Langman: 17:34

Right, you'd have to have a good eye. You'd have to have an eye for it, because some people will look and be like naughty dog or silly dog and you're like no, no, no, this is like repeated yeah, like this is something that she's feeling sore in or she's not able to do and should be able to do, like why can't she do it? A bit like when you're having an eye test. You're having an eye test and they're like can you read that row? And you're like no, and they're like, okay, you should be this level, that kind of thing. So if we think of, if we think of in terms of Cavaletti, a couple of real basic training points that you all want to share, some tips, I'm going to give one and I can give you you can take the example, jamie I would not use the manners minder anymore and initially I used the manners minder a lot, and the reason I don't like the manners minder now is that I think it makes them rush.

Lauren Langman: 18:17

But initially I loved the manners minder, the way we train it through the badge and the way we train it through games club. Maybe you're a games clubber, maybe you're a PDT or maybe you've even got the badge. Hopefully you have um absolute dog store, absolute dash dogscom. Go and check it out. But if I was doing it now via the badge and and the badge teaches this way I wouldn't use the manners minder and that's how the badge teaches. Yeah, and because I actually don't enjoy the energy it gives me and I don't enjoy the arousal it gives me.

Jamie Hogg: 18:44

Yeah, and I think I think it manners binder would be cool if your dog hasn't got the condition of the response of I've got to get to that thing as fast as I can, yeah, or that you've got the patience to train. Actually we will, but that is really hard training when they have had that history, history history massive reward for that. So I think that that that is.

Lauren Langman: 19:06

It can be used, but I just if you guys are listening, thinking what's the man's mind, that's fine. Just ignore it. Just ignore it and go on. They're annoying. Is that we hate this machine? And a couple of couple of top tips, a couple of thoughts. On cavaletti I'm going to also say let your dog go on their dinner. Let your dog go on their dinner, play Cavaletti for their dinner. You often do Cavaletti for dinner, and what would be a couple of yours? Yeah, you do. You have fish heads, chicken necks. She's like no, I'm a vegetarian. Go on, jamie. What would you say?

Jamie Hogg: 19:33

Top tips. So my top tip would be to stick to the foundations and go through them thoroughly before trying to rush and do the whole, the whole set of them as I love it.

Lauren Langman: 19:47

Yeah, I really would just foundations and build it and, guys, these are good for um young dogs, old dogs, rehab dogs, geriatric dogs and dogs who have behavioral issues. Definitely brilliant, like a must for naughty but nice dogs. Why would you train it for naughty but nice dogs? Because I think it's one of my favourite exercises for a naughty but nice dog.

Jamie Hogg: 20:05

I think it's amazing for them because, as I said, like going through that and having a flow to their movement rather than all of this kind of jerky movement that they tend to have, it's something that you can take out and about with you. So if they're a little bit environmentally reactive towards you know, take it to a safer environment and work on it there Once they've got the hang of it at home. As I said, there's a few exercises in there. There's minimal equipment that you could take out and about. That would keep give them lovely task focus.

Lauren Langman: 20:34

But yeah, I love also with naughty but nice dogs how much it forces them to problem solve on the job. Because if you think about it most naughty but nice dogs the reason they react or do all the things they do is because they don't know what else to do and they're actually not that confident in their own decision making ability to maybe disengage or maybe come and engage with owner or put themselves behind the owner or any of those things. And I was thinking about Katie. Katie's a little bit naughty but nice. We've got her at five months. She's a lovely dog, actually really nice natured dog. However, she can be immediately reactive when she spots something new with a bark, and what I've really noticed with her is the more that she's able to make these sorts of decisions, the more she's able to make good decisions on life or in life. And I remember taking to the beach not that long ago a dog dog typically charged at her and she just went and shook it off and I was like, wow, she really shook that off, like she didn't do anything, she just sort of huffed and just shook, but not a bark, nothing like a huff, like a pfft, pfft. But that was it. And for me because that's never happened to her in her four years of existence. It's never happened. I didn't actually know what that scenario would be like, whether she'd run back after the dog or whether she'd run away, or whether she'd be scared or whether she'd pounce on the dog or whatever. And as a good dog owner, you know your dog is under your control. But when another dog comes from nowhere and completely out of sight, you you don't necessarily even know what to do other than watch their response and see that you've taught enough skills, hopefully, for them to handle it. And she really could and I believe that that is through and she like to the point that I'm like you're, she's pretty social actually when you watch how she handled it, to the point that I'd actually would almost say you know what. That's the sort of thing that's made her this. Cavaletti, confidence circuits, confidence hoops those have probably had three go-tos if you haven't checked all of them out on the website, on the store absolute dogs, absolute dash dogscom, at confidence circuits, confidence hoops, cavaletti those would be real go-to's for naughty but nice dogs for me definitely like a power bundle. Yeah, yeah, they would be, they would be, they would be amazing. And then when we think about fitness jamie, so now let's move like shift gears, a little careful I say that. And so shift gears a little. When we shift gears and we think fitness, how would you say, because you helped me with my program for um Skittle?

Lauren Langman: 22:45

On Cavaletti, how would you say Skittle's muscle has developed? Because her physio is blown away by how much better her muscle is in the last six months the main thing she's done is more Cavaletti. She doesn't have a lot of off-lead walks. Why? Because she's a serious hunter. She does go on lines or flexi leads and I can let her off anywhere. I just don't want to get on it regularly.

Lauren Langman: 23:06

She's just a strong dog. Regularly she's got great recall. But I don't want her on pheasants regularly and I think it's important where we live that she doesn't get loads of exposure. So actually she's she's that type, isn't she? She's like the type to go a little sort of hunty, and so I just don't give a loads of exposure to them. Plus, oh, my goodness, I've never seen ticks like this season so far. There are so many ticks and as much as we do everything we can to protect them, I also do not want to put them in the fire, so I tend to be a little bit careful on that. She's hard hunting dog and so with her. What does her Cavaletti program look like?

Jamie Hogg: 23:37

because because her cavaletti, I would say, is probably the most muscle building thing she does, like she does a lot of muscle building through cavaletti yeah, so she does like there's different types of cavaletti so it does just look like cones in a pole, but she does an extended cavaletti where we want to lengthen and elongate the body and we want her to. I suppose that's working her back muscles and her core a lot more yeah, it really pushes her top line.

Jamie Hogg: 24:03

I think as well for good condition asking them to stretch, aren't you really through their stride? So we want the poles nice and low to the ground. You don't ever want there to be any height in that because you want them to be going low. Even with big dogs you're still having the the pole low to the ground. So she does extended cavaletti. She does a variety of this then throughout the week. So sometimes you'd focus on more curved cavaletti or tighter bend cavaletti for more days, and then you would do a couple of days maybe the straight cavaletti and vice versa, and kind of keep that kind of change in, just depending on what we need to build up. When we're doing the straight cavaletti, when they're, and when they've got a little bit of height to it, you're. It's a full body workout anyway, isn't it? But it is. It's um, you are asking them to work their glutes and they're. They're kind of picky up muscles.

Lauren Langman: 24:52

People laugh at me when they're picking up muscles and but you're asking them, it really is overall core condition, top line, like it's a bit of everything, isn't it?

Jamie Hogg: 25:00

yeah, yeah exactly a bit of everything. And then, obviously, then, when we're doing the curve and the bend, you can ask them to stretch a bit more, or you can ask them to collect a bit more, and then you've got your, your s-shaped cabaletti, which is just asking them to like have that independent asking them to do everything.

Lauren Langman: 25:16

And the best thing with with the s-bend is that actually it's a real top-end exercise. So you might think you've done loads of cavaletti, and you might. You might have thought that you've done a lot of what we've talked about, but actually when you get to this one you'll go actually I've got more to learn, like. When you watch it you can see most dogs still need to do more of this. Yeah, oh gosh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie Hogg: 25:35

Even my guys like they need to do more of this. I don't do this enough with them. So you know, and there are exercises with that, like my favourite one at the moment for warm up is the two cones and two poles and you're just asking them to figure of eight round that. I think that's a brilliant exercise.

Lauren Langman: 25:52

And that's an indoor rainy day game To the point, though, that I also think I should probably take that to dog shows with me. Yeah, I should actually have two poles and four cones and take it to a dog show. I think it's a great one. High five, we're gonna do that. Yes, do it, yes. So, guys cavaletti, should you get it or should you not get it? Should they sit on the fence? No, don't sit on the fence. No one likes sitting on a fence. Sit on the fence uncomfortable. Go get it. Yeah, go get it. Go and grab it, have a look at it.

Lauren Langman: 26:17

If you part of Games Club, if you do what we do, you're going to love the learning. If you're not part of Games Club and you don't do what we do yet, well, the badge stands alone, so you can actually watch it from zero to here. It does stand alone. If you're part of Games Club, there's going to be some extra lessons in there for you. Equally, we love Cavaletti, at whatever level. So Start basics like the two cones, four cones, two poles and playing around with it. There's a lot you can learn. There's so much fun and your dog is going to thank you for it. Right, jamie, definitely they're going to thank you for it. So, guys, that was this episode of the Sex and Squirrel podcast. We'll see you next week, where we are going to get a little bit tricky with it.