SPEAKER_01: 0:37

Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel Podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers, and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. Hello and welcome to the Sex in a Squirrel Podcast, the podcast that gives you real-life dog training and sometimes human results too. I'm joined by the wonderful Beth Bainbridge today. Now, Beth, at your side, I was thinking it's a rug, but it's not a rug, is it? It's a dog.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13

This is Brian. Brian is, well, he's supposed to be a King Charles cavalier cross poodle, but I'm not so sure. We call him a scruff a poo. And his best thing is Brian is the best hugger in the whole world. He's the fantastic dog. Yeah, everyone meet Brian.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35

He is actually gorgeous. Brian is gorgeous. Now, most people here, because we're training dogs, they might not have heard of what you do. So I don't know if you want to tell us a little bit about your world and what you do. And you, I know you're going to be humble, but I don't want you to be humble. I want you to big yourself up because you are super good at what you do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:54

Okay, so I a professional dressage rider. I work for I work for a team called Elite Dressage, and that is headed by Anna Ross. I worked for her for about 12 years now, and within that 12 years, I've worked up to now being the manager of a team of seven stables of 37 horses, and I know, I know, it's really good fun. And in that team of horses, we have all ranges of ages from backing three-year-old horses all the way through to international Grand Prix. I have myself ridden at International Small Tour, which is just the level down from the very, very top. I hope hope to get there. And I've also ridden at the World Young Horse Championships twice, which is the best young horse championships you can do in the world.

SPEAKER_01: 2:56

Which is quite cool.

unknown: 2:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 2:57

Only a few, only a few accolades there. It's amazing. So, Beth, tell me some of the highs of your job. Some tell me some of the good bits, tell me some of the best bits, tell me some of the bits you absolutely love.

SPEAKER_00: 3:09

Oh gosh, there's so many. So obviously, the the first one that comes to mind is the competitions and the buzz of the competition, getting your horses to uh getting your horses to feel like champions in the arena and and winning the red rosettes. But there's so much that is the very, very, you know, peak of the top of the triangle. And one of the best parts of my job is taking the young horses that know nothing, teaching them the basics, getting them to feel secure on the basics so that you can build on that. And I love nothing more than having the relationship with the horses that we have over years, where you build up on those basics and they become champions, and you teach them the levels of dressage that go up and up and up. And that that that probably is my most favourite thing is to teach the horses the basics all the way through to the top, and and you you make them feel like champions, and that probably is the best, you know, the best part of my job. I'm being with horses all year, you know, all year round, you know, even in the cold, I'm happy. You know, they they're they're unicorns, and I'm incredibly privileged to work with them every day. And yeah, that that is a pretty special part of my job too.

SPEAKER_01: 4:26

Now, I know that you've probably had some mega highs in your career so far because obviously you're you're still new in your career, you've still got a lot of time to do it. It's still very young. What would you say have been some of your real highs so far to date?

SPEAKER_00: 4:43

Oh, so I can have so some of my highs from result perspective is I have won internationally at Small Tour. So I have been sat on my horse in the prize giving, and they have played the national anthem, and I've had the Union Jack in front of me, which is absolutely amazing and a memory that I will never ever forget. But possibly one of my biggest highs of my competition career is I rode a stallion two years ago. Um, he came over for the season, and he was just the most amazing horse, and he was very kind in the stable. But when I competed him, he wanted to show himself off. And and I was just like a passenger, you know, on him, and he knew his job, and he strut into that arena and he showed himself off. And I just I felt like I was flying with the horse, and I was really with him in that moment, and I will always take that as one of my best memories. And with the stallions, they they have their own minds, they have the hormones, so they you know, you have to have them more on your side than you do, than you do a gilding, and he really wanted to win with me. And I will he was a six-year-old stallion, and I will never ever forget that feeling that he did taking me into that arena. It was a big atmosphere, it was a big venue, it was Hicksted in in Sussex, and there were lots of people, and I was like, Oh, come on, Zacco, we we can do this. And and we he went up to the arena, and there was like a little ride, ride, you know, a little surface ride that you went on, and he wanted to trot, and he was like, Yeah, I've got you, don't don't you worry. And I was just a passenger and it was all about him, and I will never ever forget that that moment with a horse that was truly, truly special.

SPEAKER_01: 6:37

So I love that because you talk about like the special animal, and obviously, one of the reasons I wanted to bring you here is I think there are so many parallels. I think there are so many parallels, and I think that dogs, horses, competitive nature, competitive lifestyle, and just owning animals and working with animals and people that work with animals day in, day out. I think you read animals differently to someone who doesn't do these things. Now, I'm thinking of my little competition dog Blink, she's like so far apart from from probably, I don't know what what he was, but like a 17-hand dressage horse. Like she's so far apart from that. She's like a 30 centimeter spaniel. But there's something in some animals that wants to win, that wants to try, wants to push. There's a spirit. Do you believe there are some some animals that that cut above or that like a little bit special or that little bit different, or that little bit more emotionally intelligent, or some some sort of spark in some animals? What do you think?

SPEAKER_00: 7:29

Absolutely for sure. I think I think I think that it is my job to make the horses feel like champions, no matter if they are they are for the top of the sport or to be to be sold on to an amateur. I think it's my job to make them feel like champions. But I think that there are certain horses that you you get on and they know it's an atmosphere and they they want to win for you and they and they try. And and yeah, definitely. Yeah, I really, really believe that. And that's and that's when you you know you've got a really, really special, special horse with you.

SPEAKER_01: 8:07

Yeah, for sure. And I I feel that at the moment, and I've had dogs all my life, and I feel that at the moment, and obviously, you know, we have horses and we have dogs, chickens go. Yes, I want dogs. Literally sheep. And um I've got that dog right now, and she's just a year old, and I haven't had a dog that feels quite so magic. Like, she feels like incredibly magic, and and I've had some really talented animals who've been very, very lucky, and I think sometimes luck and sometimes judgment and sometimes genetics and all of the things come to play, don't they? But how does it feel when that that happens? Like, how does it feel when you meet that magic, or how does it feel when you realise that magic? And how does it feel for you? Because I know how it feels for me, but I'd love you to tell our listeners how it feels.

SPEAKER_00: 8:53

It's so exciting. I think it's so exciting, and and I think I'm very lucky because part of my job is I ride a wide, a ride range of young horses, and they're they're all unicorns, but they're all unicorns at different different different kind of talents, really. When you get a riding four-year-old at the moment, so I'm thinking about a horse. He is so talented, and and I get and I'm excited to work with him every day. And and I love them all. I love training them all, but this this one horse, and I know he's special. And and I we we I tack him up and he's you know he's happy to see me, and I like that. I love that and a horse that they they I I want them to be my the competition partners, but also I want them to be my friends. And and when I go in the stable, he's happy to see me, and I get on him and he wants, he's waiting for me to put the aid on. And it's only little things, like he's four years old, it's basic walk, trot, canter. But I'm practicing my my halt trot transition. So we we um stand still and I try and make him stand square, and then and then so the horses have have four paces, so so in dressage, you only show the walk, trot, canter. But I'm I so I'm teaching him to halt, skip a pace out of walk, and then go into trot. And it sounds uh very simple, but actually, from a four-year-old horse, they have to be off your leg, they have to be waiting for the aid to go. And we halt and he's learnt to hold square, and then and then I stand and he's waiting. He's like, Come on, come on, come on, come on, let me go, let me go, put your leg on, so we go. And literally, and he's there, like he's done. And and that's just so special in a horse that that you they they they're working for you and they they want to train and they want to be educated, and and it's exciting every day. And then you get a bit like giddy thinking about the possibilities that you could have with this this you know, this partner in your life. And oh I oh yeah, I love it. I absolutely love it. Yeah, it it's so it's exciting because they're a they're a pleasure to train because they they want to work with you. It's it's fun because the horse is so talented and and has the ability that you know is you think, my god, you know, the sky's the limit with the you know, those horses. And that is so, you know, so so exciting when you get that one special horse. And and also I think it's you know different. It's not so much the horse either. It's about the sometimes a little bit like I don't know, like boyfriends and girlfriends, isn't it? Like, like you might, I don't know, your mum might say that this this I don't know, this guy that you you you he the guy like might be really suitable, but actually you don't click with them. And and sometimes you just click with a horse, and yeah, it yeah, it's really, really, really cool. Yeah, really. I think I might have digressed a bit, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 11:46

It's an amazing, it's I I so know it. And when you were saying about the the like waiting for the aid and where they're itching for the aid, it's it's like at the dog I'm working with right now, she's like willing it. So she's like willing it. She's like, come on, just give me the cue, give me the cue, give me the cue. She's like ready, and like I love that type of I love working with animals like that. Now, one of the things you said there, and I think this is really important, you said that when you're in the stable, you kind of want them to be, they are your competition partner, but they're also your friend, and you want to be their friend. What makes that possible? Like, how do you keep it fun and how do you keep it kind? And where do you get that trust from? And because obviously with horses, there's a huge permission base here that we're getting on them, and if they don't want it, or they don't like it, or it's not fun for them, or it's uncomfortable for them, or it's stressful for them, or it's a bad experience for them. Like, how do you make it that they enjoy that experience?

SPEAKER_00: 12:41

Okay, so I think that you have to never be in a rush. I think you have to give the horse time, and I think it's really important to give the horses time, not just being on their back. You have to be with them. You know, they're they're like people, they have feelings, you know, they're they have a personality. So you have to you have to learn their personality and then and then tap into that personality. So, for example, my my Grand Prix horse, he hates being brushed. Horses should love being groomed. My horse, Harry, he hates it. So now I I've learned that I just uh like I flick him off with a with a with a towel, and I know that he accepts that, and then we tap up and we go and wash him afterwards. So so I've built up that relationship with him through through through you spending time time with them. And and I think that's very, very important. And and the other thing is, you know, we have like a big big team around us. So so like we have we're a team of seven people, so you know, some people get on with horses, like get some people get on with you know, horses more than you know, it's like it's like people, it's like friends. So we've I've I've digressed, Lauren. I'm sorry. You're fine, you're fine.

SPEAKER_01: 14:01

I've gone wrong. No, not at all. I think what I really like is that I mean, even within a team of seven, Beth, like surely you've got to communicate between each other as well. So actually, I suppose to get the trust in a horse. Like, if you see something you don't like, will you talk to each other about it? So will you say, I don't know, he didn't like it when I did this, or she's not comfy when I do that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:25

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. We all we communicate together. We have we have a tea break every day and we we sit down and we talk about the day, we talk about, we talk about the horses and and yeah, and discuss them and and we make a plan for those horses. You know, some of them like to go in the field before they're ridden. So then that makes them happy athletes. Some of them would rather be ridden and then go out in the field. Some of them, some of them would like to be in the field for 20 minutes, some of them would like to be in the field all day. It's really important to us that we treat the horses like individuals, not just not just that we have 37 stables and and it's the same for every horse. And that I think is very, very important that they're all different, and you you you learn what they want and you you adapt yourself as a rider to that need. And and then I think that builds, you know, builds up the good partnership with them.

SPEAKER_01: 15:25

Well, I was thinking because obviously I know that you know our ponies, so you know Loki and you know Chris, and I'd love you to tell me your interpretation of their personalities in a minute. Um but previously we had a little pony called Rio, and when we went into his stable, like he would turn his back and he would really actively show that he disliked that experience. He didn't want someone riding him for whatever reason. And obviously, with ponies, the hard thing is you might take them on at 17. Like we were taking him on as a 17-year-old pony, and it was a bad fit. And it wasn't a bad fit because Eliza didn't adore him, she did. It was a bad fit because he didn't really want to be ridden, and something was either uncomfy or something was not happy for him. But have you ever experienced that with horses? And how would you get them back on board, or how would you get them on side, or can you get them back on side? Because I'm looking at this from dog training, and dog training, we use very different like methods. We would use like toys and treats and um reward-based training, but I don't know how you do that with maybe a horse in the same way. Like, what would you do from your experience level? Of course, I can dabble at it, but from your experience level, what would you do?

SPEAKER_00: 17:16

So I think first of all, I think it's really important to look at uh, you know, the your basic, you know, if you've got something that's you don't think if you think if you've got something that's abnormal with a horse, I think it's really important to do your basics. So get their, you know, get their teeth done, get them checked out by a vet, you know, get their get their back done, check the you know, check the saddle. And then once you've done all of those things, and then they're probably no will be some things that you might need to look into from from those, you know, from those four four areas of care. And and then you would, you know, you would change what change, you know, change if if they said something, then you would obviously change that and and give give the horses uh time with that change. You know, it doesn't normally change overnight. You know, you normally have to to give them time to adapt to that change. And then the, you know, the the next thing is to just to you know uh look at you know, look at the horse if they're you know they're not happy in the stable and and work out why, you know, they they might even doubt it, they might want a different friend next door. You know, they're they might not like their friend next door, or they might not, they might want their head in a different place, so they're closer to their friend. You know, they're such they have they have real feelings horses, and you've gotta like work them out and yeah, to just to like take take your time. So yeah, you know, vet, vet, you know, get their teeth done, get their back checked, get their saddle checked, then work out. They might not like the hay that they're on, you might have to change the hay, put them onto hailage. And and also I think what's really important if you've got a new horse is to, and especially if they're an older horse, to go back to the previous owners and say, you know, what what was your routine? Because that that horse might have been in that routine for the last 10 years, and then you you know, you might need to make that the same routine so that's what the horse knows, and then and then you build a better partnership with the horses.

SPEAKER_01: 19:28

Absolutely. I love it, and it's checking the needs and then making that bespoke plan, and so that would be very similar for us. And I love the analogies and the and I love the similarities that we can take from one world to another. So I think I'm gonna take you to competition now because I think competition is definitely a passion area. Yes, what do you ever get nervous?

SPEAKER_00: 19:48

Oh now, I'm very lucky that I I don't get to competition nervous. Now I unless I'm doing so at the nationals, as I rode at the British Dressage National Championships three years ago. I had three horses in one class. Yes, yes, and so I had I think I had from the time that my first horse had finished down the center line, they then had a ta check. So the steward at the at the bigger shows, there's a steward that comes in to make sure the horse's welfare is is top of of everything. So you have a ta check. So then you have I had half an hour between each horse. That I have to say, I don't get nervous, but I think right, okay, come on, Beth. You've got to really know what you're doing right now to make this work. But I'm I'm very lucky in the grand scheme of things. I I get excited and I want to do well, but I don't get nervous, but I I'm very, very strict with having my competition routine leading up to the show.

SPEAKER_01: 21:02

Go on, tell us about it. So, how does well I would be the same? I've got like rituals that would happen up to the show and in the show and right up to the actual event, which I feel is like almost a bit of a winning formula when you're at that level. Like you put together a formula and it feels very comfortable and you know exactly how it maps out. And even if it doesn't go quite to plan, you know what you're gonna do. So you feel like I definitely feel like I could coach whether it's people on horses or people on working with dogs, like the competition formula is quite similar, I would guess.

SPEAKER_00: 21:30

I'd love to hear your tell me, and I'll tell you.

SPEAKER_01: 21:34

Let's share them.

SPEAKER_00: 21:36

So yeah, so leading up to the show, I have my set days when I know the horses are gonna have a rest day, they're gonna train, or they are going to have a different day. So when they they you're you're on their you're on their backs, but you are you're hacking or riding over poles, but and I really make sure I try and stick to my days that I train and I give the horses different activities. And then probably about two weeks before the show, I have set days where I know I'm going to ride through my tests. I'm and and I often film it, and then and then I will watch in the evening, I'll watch the tests back and and and sometimes with my trainer Anna Ross, and I'll say, right, okay, this area is good, this area I need to improve on. Okay, so for the and this, so after those sessions, I will think, okay, so I need to work on the trot. So that I I then make that a specific day where I work on the trot, then I work on the canter on the next day, and then I would possibly go back to test riding and then try to give the horses like an easy day before the show. So I do my basics and I make sure my basics are really, really good. So that would be my kind of riding prep two weeks after the show. Then on the day of the show, I have an extensive list of I literally if I've got a big show, say so an international show or a national show, I will write down when I'm gonna even eat my lunch, when I'm gonna brush my teeth. I I because because you have to know what your little things are that make you you feel prepared and and ride well. So I I know what those things are and and and I make sure I write them down, and one of them is brushing my teeth. So I write down before before I I write down a list in the morning or in the evening before the show, all of the things that I'm going to do and what time I'm going to do them. And also to take your because it's quite a buzz competing, isn't it? You know, and yeah. So also when I'm gonna have my downtime. So I try to take my dog to a competition, unless it's an international show, and I make sure I have downtime with her that I will go and I will take her for a walk and I I factor everything in. So I I have my time when I prepare, my time when I'm I'm calm and I take myself out of the competition. I have my time where I will sit and I will think about the tests and think how I'm going to ride it and visualize, you know, my corners, my my half holds, how I'm gonna go to the set down the center line, where I'm gonna look as I go down the center line. And I I quite like to at the larger shows go and see the arena and and and see where I'm gonna go and also like walk where I'm gonna walk into the arena so I know absolutely everything leading up to the time when I get on.

SPEAKER_01: 24:41

That's all great. And I think it's very, it's very similar. I would say leading up to the show for us, the same sort of thing. We would have some prep time, and then the day before the show, we would definitely not work some or do anything with them, and probably a little bit of pampering, maybe like hot bath or shower or massage or some sort of like treatment. So they would get that, and and we'd be careful on not we we use like PEMF therapies, or like we might use biomagnets or things like that, maybe as well. And then day normally ours will travel the day before because we'll be there the night before, and so they'll travel the day before and the day of the show. For me, the same things. I want the animal to see the arena if I can as well, because it's easier with a dog. So you can get them to see the arena. I want them to know where we are. And like yesterday, when I was at an event, I've got a young dog there, and I could have gone in three different doors, but I went in a door she'd already been in before, so she knew where we were because she was there three weeks ago. So because she was there three weeks ago and she had a good experience, I'd take her in the same door and say, Look, you're in the same place, it's all good. Like exactly what we do with the horses, exactly what we would do.

SPEAKER_00: 25:49

And also, whilst we're talking, I'm thinking it we really we plan the horses as well. So, say we are at an away show with the horses, if they're sleeping, we have a rule, or if they're lying down there, so we have a rule that we do not go in, we let the horses rest. So, even if it's their time, I don't know, to plaque up or something, they're resting, you leave the horse alone, you change your plan. So, for us, it's quite strict, but for the horses, it's incredibly important that we can adapt for them so they they can have their rest and things like that. But sorry, I interrupted you. No, not at all.

SPEAKER_01: 26:22

Exactly the same. Travel is exhausting for animals and and horses even more so than most because they're standing up. And so travel is exhausting. So we would definitely agree that you need to let them rest as much as possible. And we try and set them up for rest. So our dogs are very comfortable in the facilities that we travel them in, and we try and make sure they're really comfy wherever they go. And then anything that we can keep normal, we try and keep normal. So if it's certain certain things we travel with, like I even travel with our own water because our water is like boreho water, they prefer that for sure than like tap water. So I do too. And so for me, if we can keep anything the same or anything like similar, we will. And then the other thing is if we've got a confident dog and we're traveling with a confident dog, we'll take a confident dog with a nervous dog or a new dog or a dog who hasn't been before. So the dog's almost got like a season pro to match up against. And if we can, we'll even let them exercise with that dog or train with that dog or even walk into the competition with that dog. So they've got someone to lean on a little bit, and then definitely visualize 100% visualize. So we want them to know the arena, but we also want to know the arena. For me, I'd be trying to take it all in and trying to like how does it smell? How does it look? How does it feel? And try and like run through everything. And and for me, all your senses are really important. So I want to be able to see it, visualize it, touch it, taste it, like you can play it all through. And you've been there normally before, so you can like rehearse. And if you've had a bad experience, I try and wipe it. And if I've had a good experience, I try and replay it.

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

Yes, yeah. Good. There's always a new day. If you if you've had a bad experience, there's always a new day. You know, there's always something you can change to make it better, isn't it? It's it's it's never the it's never the you know the final, the final word, is it? You can you can change it and and make it into a good experience.

SPEAKER_01: 28:10

Absolutely, absolutely, like rewrite it. And then the other thing is if there are any animals that are stressed, upset, anxious, worried, hard work, like we try and stay, stay well clear of them. So I try and keep my dogs away from any drama. So if there's like a dog kicking off or somebody's van, because you get like some vans that are like chaos and like all barking and lunging, and I just try and like park somewhere else, or I just try to not put my dogs in any stress they don't need because you want any animal that's performing to perform with its. We talk a lot about like gut microbiomes and having like a healthy gut bacteria, and you don't want to just stress out, like there's no need like stress isn't helpful. No, I mean there's a level of stress that's fun, like when it's exciting, but stress on its, you don't really need it to be like that type of stressful. So I'm a little bit of that as well.

SPEAKER_00: 28:59

Yeah, we um at the we at the stables where I work, we don't have a radio, we have it nice and quiet, and one for the horses, and two obviously from from a safety perspective that you can you can communicate and you can talk. But then at the shows, if we've got a next door neighbor and they've got radio one on, we'll say, I'm really please can you turn it off? Because the horses aren't used to it. And we will do it for the for the sake of the horses and their welfare, you know, we say you know, please turn it off. And and and yeah, yeah, and we're very um, you know, very it's very important to us at the shows that the horses in if they're in the barns that the lights have turned off for them so that they can rest.

SPEAKER_01: 29:44

So really good point. Really good point. Yeah. And then I would also say, competition-wise, if I'm fretting at all or Matt's fretting at all, the other person will take over the animal. So if I'm stressy at all, or if he's stressy at all, Matt's never stressed, but if he was, and like hypothetically, we try not to handle them if we're stressy. So it just feeds right down the lead or the lead rope or whatever you're talking about, right?

SPEAKER_00: 30:10

And for us, it's down the reins, straight down the reins, and through your bum as well, if I'm being honest. Through your, I should say your seat, through the rain and through your seat. You know, you have to be, you have to be the same. We it's probably not the right thing to say, but sometimes um Anna, who who I work for, will say, right, it's fine. Just just don't turn into a crazy person. That's that's basically you know, shorthand for just just do what you normally do, and then they'll be fine. You know, as long as you don't turn into a crazy person, it's fine. Yep. Stay you now. Yeah, to stay you, yeah, to stay you, it's fine, it's fine. Just it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01: 30:47

I'm gonna change gears once more here. Now I know you've been teaching Eliza. So Eliza is my daughter, for those of those listening and those of you listening for the first time. You I think you're an excellent teacher as well as an excellent competitor. And I also think you do very well with children because Liza's really funny. She will say, I don't need that instructor anymore, mummy. So you can tell. That she's like, I don't fancy that. And you've got to make it pretty fun. Now she's never said that about you. You've always been like high on her like love agenda. And although she has taught you to do show jumping in your dressage lessons, which is entertaining.

SPEAKER_00: 32:06

She has. She has. And I that's credit to her, I have to say, because yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:13

And that you've been successfully trained to show jump. Um told me I was quite good the other day. So tell me, Beth, how do you make dressage fun for Liza? And how do you make teaching for because you you're not necessarily a children's teacher, and yet you've you've done really well teaching a child, but she definitely finds a lot of enjoyment working with you. And Liza is very much me, really. She says things as they are, and she's very, very that's how I want to do it. And so she's she's always enjoyed your lesson, she's always enjoyed every one of them. How do you do it?

SPEAKER_00: 32:48

Uh I I remember when I was a kid and I was learning to ride and how much fun I have had. And and I try really hard to tap into Anne to that and and remember what I used to find fun. And she's much braver than me, she's much braver than I will ever be, Eliza. But but it it's in it's important to make it fun. So I I know that she enjoys the jumping, but I also am very, very aware that the dressage is a massive part of it. And I do try and keep chipping away that if she does well at her dress odds, you know, the jumping will be really good. So so I I know that it's I I might say to Right, okay, you've got to bend around that corner because uh inside bend through the corner so the horse becomes more supple, and I know that that will make her jumping better, but then I know that she finds it fun to go fast. So I say, right, okay, so let's work on the inside bend right through that corner, but then see how many strides you can do to your long side of the arena in because I I know that she'll want to go fast afterwards, so I kind of get what I want out of the training, which is to teach Reefa or Loki to bend to the inside, so I know that they'll be more balanced when she comes to the jumping to go down a grid and they they they keep their balance and their rhythm going into a jar. But I also know from her perspective that if she has a good old canter down the long side, she'll find that more fun. So I think you have to really think about the the horses and the riders and and then bring it to one and think fast on your feet as well. So, you know, so you have to think, okay, right, I would like this from the lesson, but I know if I do do something else, I can bring I can bring that in, and then and then I'll get everything. So it's thinking think really thinking like out of the box. And I love how you say thinking fast.

SPEAKER_01: 34:53

Yeah, I love how you say think fast because I do think especially she's quite smart, so you've got to kind of think three steps ahead because she's already she's already like, how we get into the show jumps, and you can see it. And I'm like, like Liza, if you want to do dressage, or sorry, if you want to do eventing, dressage is gonna be part of it.

SPEAKER_00: 35:10

It is, it is, yeah, it is. It is, you know, she's she yes, you just got to. I keep saying to you, just got to keep chipping away at this because then your jumping is going to be amazing. And and I really make make a point of reminding her that oh, but we were having a lesson tonight, and Reef did the most amazing 20-meter circle. And I remind her, I said, You could you couldn't do that last summer. He didn't have enough balance last summer to do that, and so I remind her, I constantly try and remind her of what she's achieved because then I think that gives her a sense of achievement, and she'll know that what we are doing is benefiting her from the riding and the jumping perspective, and that does come from all the flat work that we are doing.

SPEAKER_01: 35:58

Amazing, amazing, and and she's obviously taken on a young horse, and we knew we needed a good instructor to help with that because that's something we we didn't really realise the naivety of what you do when you're yeah, that looks like a great horse, but actually it's quite a young horse. Now, I'm thinking about this, Beth. You said earlier about personalities. Go on, tell me raw, open, honest personalities of Loki and Reef. I want to test you, I want to see what you think.

SPEAKER_00: 36:23

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 36:24

So um You can't offend me, I'm not Eliza.

SPEAKER_00: 36:29

So um, they are like chalk and cheese, completely chalk and cheese. So Loki out and out would be a DJ. He'd be out, he would, he would still go to work, but he would be out Friday, Saturday, Sunday, night if it was a bank holiday, Monday, but he would still come in and do his job in the morning and do it well. And then Reefe would be an accountant, he would have his A, B, C's all sorted, he would have like his cookbooks like in his alphabetical order, he likes everything as it is. So like Reef would be Reef would be the person that you should marry, but Loki would be the person you would want to want to marry. Want to marry, but you'd be better off with Reeve.

SPEAKER_01: 37:18

So funny, and so true, like Mr. Conscientious, Mr. Methodical, Mr. Like paid the bills, ticked on boxes, probably not that exciting, but does it all correctly?

SPEAKER_00: 37:30

Perfect partner, but uh but but Loki Loki would be the one that you would want to go out for dinner with. But Reef uh but Reef would be the one that would have everything in order. Everythingable yeah, yeah, exactly. Mr. Dependable, yeah, that's what I think of them as.

SPEAKER_01: 37:49

So funny, so funny. So if we're talking to people, and I can do the same, like if I was to give a couple of tips with like working with animals, I suppose one of my tips, and and I love that you've you've already shared one, it was take your time, and that's something often I don't do enough of. So I I I sort of thought, no, that's really good because often I'm on a time pressure, and I know you are too, but actually taking it back and take your time. And I'm gonna give one of my tips. One of my tips working with animals was would be again as similar to what I've heard from you here, read each animal and adapt it for each animal. So with Skiss or my youngest dog, who I think is just sheer brilliant, like you've got to calm yourself down all the time. You just got to bring yourself down because she's electric, she's like electric. And then with my brilliant colleague, Tokyo, you have to never overthink things too much. Because if you overthink things too much, he will too. So you've got to be quite intentional with what you're doing. So I would say, for me, the tips I read there from you one was take your time, and for me, it would be work each animal as an individual and don't try and like put them in a box. Like there is no box. No get rid of the box. It's not even think outside the box, it's like there's the box is crushed in a fire, like there is no box. No, like what would be what would be a couple of yours or some of yours?

SPEAKER_00: 39:05

Oh okay, be consistent, but be consistent with the horse. Do the they they love routine, they they like you to do the same thing, and that is that is with them from a management side and and a riding side. They they like you to be the same person.

SPEAKER_01: 39:25

And when you say consistent, when you so so just out of understanding, really, is it typically you that would ride the same horse every time, or do you change riders between you typically?

SPEAKER_00: 39:35

Um, we do change riders because we are a we are sales yard. So it's really good for the horses to be ridden by different people, so that when they come to being tried, it's not a new thing for them. But those riders are under our umbrella, so they're all trained the same, the the same way.

SPEAKER_02: 40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:01

Um, and and we we ride with each other every day, we bounce ideas off people every day, and and you know, if you know, if if I'm having a walk break, I've got you know an eye on on one of our apprentices, you know, just to say, oh, you know, this is how I don't know, maybe do a trop, walk, trop transition and bend them through the corner. So I would say that we're all quite the same in how we train the horses, and I think that is that's really important, and also communication. You know, if you've you've got a hot hot horse, I I work with a girl called Jess, so she rode one of my horses today, and I said, Oh, you know, this one's quite a hot horse, so just just uh I do it like this, you know, give it a go and see what you think. So we always communicate. So I think I think it's really important to be consistent with the horses, and I think you can never underestimate the power of basics.

SPEAKER_01: 40:57

I literally love that you said that. So foundations, foundations, foundations like really key.

SPEAKER_00: 41:02

Never ever underestimate. I I I out and out dressage rider because there is nothing that can make my day amazing, or and this is crazy. Like there's people, I don't know, there's there are there's there's I don't know, paramedics out there that do so much more than I do, but but nothing makes my day happy or sad more is when my horse goes around a corner in a sandpit. Well, and literally five meters, that's all it is, you know, through a corner of a sandpit. But but if I I know if I can get that basic right, I can make everything float afterwards. So yeah, the power never underestimate the power of basics ever. Amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 41:53

I've got one last question for you. I'm interested, just because I'm interested. Do you prefer hot horses or sort of more more steady, cooler types?

SPEAKER_00: 42:04

I personally I do prefer a hotter horse, but that comes with its own things, I I would say. So yeah, I I I I don't I where I am where I'm a head rider, I ride all sorts of horses. I I I'm not allowed to have a type on my job, and and actually I I'm very appreciative of that because that makes me very versatile as a rider. But if I was to choose one, I I would prefer a hot horse. So so I'd I'm I'm 37 this year, Lauren. So and I do get a bit scared on the younger ones now. And but but but if I ride a four-year-old and I'm slightly like I'm slightly dubious about riding them, I'm like, oh, in two years' time, you are gonna be my partner. Amazing. Like I yeah, I like them because they're they're they're sensitive and then they they it's smaller aids, you know, you have to give smaller aids to get to get what you want in the end. And then they normally they're normally not so good horses at the younger stages, so uh they all I don't know, they might be a little bit sensitive, the arena, a bit lucky at the flower pots and and things like that. But once you you you train them and and you get your basics in it really, really set in, and then and then you build at it. Normally, I would say the hot ones, they they fly. And I I I that's that is what I if I if I was allowed to have the choice, that's what I would prefer.

SPEAKER_01: 43:43

I love it, and of course, we can always have a preference, it doesn't mean that that makes us one way or the other. I'm similar, I think I love a dog with a motor. So I love that they can take themselves and they can carry themselves, and at the same time, I will work with every dog, but the dogs are a little bit hot, and just for the audience who's listening, hot for us would mean it in dogs would be probably just higher drive or a little bit more easily aroused or easily excited or easily like when you say go, they're gone. Like they're already ready, then they're chomping at the bit, they're they're like willing to go, versus probably the reefs you've got to ask him a couple of times sometimes. You've got to ask a few times to get them moving in. And there's nothing wrong with those, it's just it's a different type of animal to work with.

SPEAKER_00: 44:28

Yes, definitely. Yeah, definitely. And and actually from that, what my job is is is kind of learning what makes a horse horse tick and learning what incentivizes the horses to train and and I quite I enjoy on picking them to like work it out as young horses to to know how to train them to make them really good in the end.

SPEAKER_01: 44:50

And that's but that's what with Reef I would say, Anna, and Anna, um I've gone into a trainer. I've gone into a trainer, Beth. You're you're gonna be Anna now, Beth, with with what you and what Anna would find in in a horse, really, would be like how do you get a horse like Reef to love his job? Because my friend and I, when we were discussing, we were like, Oh, he can be a bit like Eeyore at times. We don't want him to be like Eeyore, we want him to be a bit more like Tigger, right? Like you want him to be a much more like Tigger, like looking for the bright side or the bouncy side or the fun side, but actually he could be a little bit like apprehensive or worried, or just even some days not wanting to go. Like, how do you bring out the best in that? Or how I mean you can use reef as an example.

SPEAKER_00: 45:29

Like through their experience, I know so a hot horse, they're sensitive, so that you want they they actually they they like want you to hug them with their leg, so with your legs, so that they feel they feel secure. And I think that sometimes can be a little bit of a different way of thinking because you think a hot horse, they don't want you to touch them. But actually, that if you keep your legs off off them and ride them lightly, they're like when you know when's the aid? Where are you?

SPEAKER_01: 45:59

Where are you?

SPEAKER_00: 45:59

Where they they want you, yeah, where are you? They they want you to feel for them. And Reefe is a slightly colder horse, so actually, it in although it might not seem the right thing to do, you have to, you know, repeat the you want to give them a big aid to to do like a movement in the school, you actually have to repeat the transitions over and over again and use less and less aid, and then they learn to react to the smaller aids, and then they become quicker and hotter. So so act uh a more reef style horse that is a slightly more, I don't want to say slow because I don't want to make him feel sad.

SPEAKER_01: 46:42

Like he he a bit more, I would say a bit more. He needs a bit more to get him to do something. He needs he's a bit more thoughtful almost. It it's like he thinks about it, or he doesn't, it's it's not dead to the leg at all. It's more doesn't he doesn't look he doesn't he's not seeking it out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:01

Yeah, yeah. So so you have to, and I this is what we train with a lies. You you repeat the aid and you repeat the aid, but you you go with a small aid first, and then you really make sure that you when he does react to the small aid, you tell him he's really good, you know, you make him feel like a champion, and then and then he's like, oh, that was really good. I'll I'll do that again, and I'll I'll listen to that small aid, and and then you can make a a slower, less reactive horse quite quick in the end. Then you're all right.

SPEAKER_01: 47:33

I love that. I love that about you, and I love that you're enthusiastic about them all. Uh Beth, it's been amazing to chat. Oh thank you. I hope I hope you come and chat again because I think there's more we could talk on, and and it at there's so much that is relatable about dogs and horses, and I also know that at the end of the day we're training animals, so you're training animals and we're training animals, and and that's what it's about.

SPEAKER_00: 47:57

It's so interesting to talk about the similarities between horses and dogs, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 48:02

Because it's it's it's the same. It is there's so much that's similar. Most of all, though, I think Brian has been the star. Like you're sat next to the rug that is literally, I can't actually get over that Brian the dog is actually a real dog, and I love that all of your dogs are wandering and just having a lovely time. Um lovely, lovely time. Um, I also have to say, you have done wonders with Eliza's riding. So, from that perspective, I love having you on here. So Beth, I would love you to come back again soon if you'd have us.

SPEAKER_00: 48:33

I would thank you so much for having me. I I it loved, I've loved chatting and it's been great fun. Thank you. Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Yes to Eliza, yes to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 48:46

Oh, no, it's a pleasure. It's a pleasure, and massive good luck at your upcoming competitions. We can't wait to hear all of your results and all of the team, um, Anna, and everybody in the team. And that was this episode of Sex and Squirrel Podcast. Join us for next week, where we'll definitely take a slightly different route. And I know you're gonna enjoy it. Make sure you share the podcast, like the podcast, review the podcast, and we'll see you next time.