SPEAKER_00: 0:37

Welcome to the Absolute Dog Text in a Squirrel podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers, and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. No pressure. No pressure. No pressure. Immediately, what happens when you get told no pressure? We feel pressure. There's so much pressure. What was I feeling pressured about? What we got to do? I'm feeling pressured. I think we put on what we put so much pressure on ourselves.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11

We do.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11

And actually, it's not other people that put the pressure on because people say, Oh, yeah, but they were watching me. Yeah, I get that they were watching you. But you know what? They're probably in their own little world thinking about their own things, and you're just like entertainment. Like, don't panic. You're of no importance to everybody else. Most people are so self-absorbed and so in their own. I think it foot orbits their their world. They've got their own world. And pressure is such a massive thing in dog training. Pressure is such a massive thing in the dog sports world, in the dog world generally. I see it in the horse world. Pressure can really upset the relationship with your dog. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:42

Yeah, really get undermine how you are with your dog and undermine the success you can have with your dog and the fun you can have.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50

Now, whether that's at pet level, and I know you're teaching a lot of the time lots of pet owners, as am I, or whether it's at competitive sports level, which again you're teaching people at competitive sports level, as am I, and right up to sort of ticket and world championship level for me, my students, I see them put so much pressure on themselves to the point it almost ruins what they're they're doing and their experience. I can actually see it really did dehabilitate like their ability to have a good time. And people say, Yeah, I'm just trying to have fun. And I'm like, No, this really isn't fun. And actually, you've completely upset the balance of what could be fun, haven't you? Yes, by doing that.

SPEAKER_01: 2:28

You have. And and it's I always try to think of it in terms of doing, looking at a situation and saying, what is it that I can do in this situation? Not what I imagine is expected of me, or what are the what's the dream, or what do I think other people want?

SPEAKER_00: 2:49

I that's a huge one. What do I think other people want? Number one, you'll never know because it's guesswork. And number two, actually, that's not what you want. So why why even there's a brilliant saying, isn't there? Comparison is the thief of joy. So comparison is the thief of joy, that's one of them. And the second one for me is whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're probably right. And I would actually say you're right, not even probably. And so, and that's Henry Ford. And so for me, when we think about pressure and when we think about our relationship with our dogs, none of us got in this to feel pressure. None of us got involved here to have a hard time, none of us got involved here to feel inadequate. And I think actually, when we talk about no pressure, I think with pressure comes all of those things: feeling inadequate, feeling not able to uh be the best you can be for your dog, feeling that you're not achieving the right results. Now, both of us recently have had experiences of feeling inadequate, I suppose, or a level of pressure. Uh, mine was a competitive experience. I was running an end line, I was coming to the end. My dog had had just such a cool run. She's a young dog, she'd had like the perfect round. Everything about her run, there was nothing I disliked, really good run. And it's all coming together, and then it starts to get near the end, and you're bottling it up and you're getting excited, but you're also getting a bit managing and scared. And she runs past the last jump. And in that moment, I smile because she's done such a great job, and I'm so proud of her, and I'm so pleased for her in what she's doing. She's showing me raw potential that is just phenomenal. At the same time, I am kicking myself. I'm like, why were you not better for her in that moment? Why did you not step up? Why did you not do a better job? And then I think there's that saying, it is what it is. Let's not fight with like you can't go back in time, and what you're going to do and what you learn from the experience. It's the learning.

SPEAKER_01: 4:32

And that's the lesson I always go. What of what do I need to learn from this so that I'm better prepared next time to do a better job? Rather than going, I'm stupid, I'm an idiot, I can't do it, etc.

SPEAKER_00: 4:47

I'm inadequate, my dog needs a better handler. I hear that all the time, I'm sure you do. My dog, with a better handler, yeah, but this is your dog. Now, mindset plays a massive part in pressure, doesn't it? Now, you've got probably a different take on mindset to most. Explain why.

SPEAKER_01: 5:00

Because I used to be a psychotherapist, so I see so much from the person's point of view, and constantly hear people creating their own story, telling themselves stories, and they are stories. We might as well put them on the children's story book shelf. They are stories that we tell ourselves, and they are not true.

SPEAKER_00: 5:25

And and and I think that's the thing is be aware. Uh the truth is an interesting thing, I think. Let's let's just go back a stage. Truth is an interesting thing. My truth and your truth, and one of the students out in the group's truth, they can all be your truth and they can be the truth, but they can all be different truths. Because they often relate to beliefs and to um our own our own stories. And so I think it's really impactful to know that what you say out loud matters, what you say in your head matters. Yeah. Yeah. So if you say to yourself constantly, I'm not able to do this, or I'm not good enough for this dog, or my dog's way better than I am, or um this dog should have had a better handler, or um, I'm trying to think I can't do this. I can't do this. That that's constantly, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 6:07

I'm I'm no good at this. Whatever.

SPEAKER_00: 6:09

And and it's one of those things that you you repeat, you repeat, you repeat, you repeat enough times that it actually becomes the way you are, it becomes your truth. Now you've watched handlers both here and at other centres and and different places all over the country put pressure on themselves and put pressure on their dogs. What happens when that happens, in your opinion, with some of these scenarios? And I'm gonna say there's a space for healthy pressure. I work a little dog called Sheba, she's a great friend of mine's dog, and I've run a few dogs actually for other people. And I've been very fortunate in my own dog blink, um, Shiba, and then another um another dog, all three of them loved and thrived on pressure. Like if you pushed up a gear and you said, Come on, let's win this, let's go. What's your next gear? They were like, Bring it on. Whereas if you pressured a little dog like Wild, I actually think she'd crumble. And I think that's important to acknowledge. Now, you're watching pet dog owners learn some obedience here this week. We're teaching in the group, it's a lovely week to be here. It's the sun's out, and everyone's enjoying themselves, having banana bread and enjoying great community and company. But some of these owners put a lot of pressure on themselves. They do. And what happens in that pressure?

SPEAKER_01: 7:17

So a lot of the that comes from comparison, for instance. So there might be people in the group who are a little more advanced than other people are, or people already come with some lack of belief in their ability or their ability to train their dog, and that does that that can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And so we can end up going down and down and down a spiral where these people pull away from the group, for instance. And I'm very conscious of always finding the good. Because if I find the good in what's going on, then they'll begin to find the good in what's going on, and we'll start to lose some of the yes, but yes, but it didn't do this, this, this, and this.

SPEAKER_00: 7:58

Yes, but it did do this, this, this, and this. And and there's a really good one, actually. Replace butt with and when you replace butt with and it stops it, it stops a lot of negative negative talk for me. Now, I'm gonna give you another example. Matt and I were at a competition and I said recently, yeah, but I can't do that. And he said, yet. And I just thought it's such a brilliant addition to my terrible sentence. Like, I can't do that. And he went, yet. And I went, yet. Yes. Not in my toolkit yet. Yes, yes, yet. And when you when you said that about the pressure and the owners, and then they backtrack, I think there was one point you said there that I think is really important and impactful if you're an instructor, particularly if you're an instructor, but also if you're a student, to realize that a lot of the time we don't just come here wanting dog training. We come here with baggage, we come here with maybe a bad day, a bad week. I've got a brilliant student of mine right now who's had some problems with her employment. I've had another brilliant student who actually um has has huge bereavement in their life and and is struggling with that right now, and understandably so. And so often people turn up with other baggage going on, right? There's other stuff going on, there's other life. Let's say it's it's it's living, isn't it? Life happens. And and I know that I've been in a group here with my lovely, lovely wonderful group here. And I'd recently lost my dog and I I barely could speak. I couldn't speak. I couldn't even like my eyes would even now they well up if I think about it. And so often those things come as well, and then that almost adds additional emotional dynamic and additional pressure, doesn't it, to try and get around, especially when you see someone seemingly thriving and you're not like that's a that's a hard space to be, isn't it? When you're not thriving, someone else is thriving, you want to be happy for them, but you're also seriously annoyed at where you are.

SPEAKER_01: 9:38

Well, the the the the mark of a good coach, in my opinion, is that they can coach somebody to be better than they can.

SPEAKER_00: 9:45

Oh, massive, massive. And I remember one of my, I have to say, I do have favorite students. I try not to have favorite students, but I do have favorite students. One of my favorite students, who now often is my trainer, she went to world championships and she went alongside me. And I love seeing that, and I loved seeing that she took it up a notch and really got there with me. And at the same time, I'd probably say sometimes she can be a better trainer than me because she's very, very diligent. Whereas I'd like to jump around and and sometimes miss a stage because I want to get there quicker. Whereas how you play games, how you play life, I'm gonna do that quick. Whereas I would say I'm a better competitor than her because I've probably got a bit more fight in me and spirit in me and a bit more fire. And so actually, you compliment each other very, very well. Uh and at the same time, I think you're right, a great coach can teach someone to exceed what they've done potentially. Absolutely can. But get back to that pressure thing with the students. What fallout do you see, or what problems do you see when let's say one owner in the group or one owner that you're teaching starts to either act accidentally really pressure themselves or pressure their dog? What sort of problems might you see? What sort of things might seep out?

SPEAKER_01: 10:54

Well, first of all, you might see them withdrawing, so they don't want to expose themselves to failure because they they're going to see it. You might see them being more quiet in the group. You might you might they might be, I always do some exercises and then ask for feedback, and you might notice that they're not giving you the feedback, even though you've observed some good things that they've done. And so you'll see dynamics change, and then you'll you'll you'll also notice that the stronger members of the group will start to fill the space that those people have vacated, and you and you must manage that dynamic. It's it's like group facilitation.

SPEAKER_00: 11:34

It's like it's like kids in a playground at times, I think. And I think we need to remember that I I certainly know I can be a bit of a kid, and and that frustration. I again I was talking to a brilliant, brilliant sports psychologist, and he said to me, because I said I'm so frustrated. I was like, I'm so frustrated. He said, good. He said, good, because that frustration tells me how much you care. And that frustration is actively healthy. And if you're not frustrated like that, you probably are in the wrong game. So he said, frustration, he said the only issue is we've got to have an outlook for it, and where does that go? And so for me, with that frustration, I don't know about you, and I'd love to hear what you do, but when I get frustrated, like I did with myself for letting this run down, and I definitely did. I I just didn't quite read the scenario correctly. And we do that, we're human, so give yourself the grace of being human. And for me, what I do is come up with a plan. And if I have a plan, I'm fine. I just need a plan. So I've written the plan, I know what I'm doing, I know what I'm training, I know how I'm training it, and then I know how I got from here to here because I've put the plan off together. And for me, the comparison to other people I have to knock on the head because actually it's not helpful. No, it's not. So I've I've worked out that doesn't help me. So it's actually almost gonna stop me learning well, and it's gonna stop me progressing because it isn't about me, and it's something I it's completely out of your control how someone else does.

SPEAKER_01: 12:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 12:50

So stop trying to like look at it and control it and be involved in it, or not be involved in it, or whatever you're doing. Yeah. And I know when I've been winning a ticket class or when I've been at the top of something, I was winning, like you want to like almost hex the next dog, and you shouldn't really do that, but you kind of want to because you want to be there. You know what? Focus on your own getting. You can do nothing about what they're doing. Stay in your own lane. Stay in your own lane. And I think lots of people won't be that honest. They'll be like, No, no, I'm really happy for everyone to win. No, seriously, everyone wants to win. Like, we all want to win. Winning is a lovely feeling, isn't it? I like the red ones. Oh, it's just a great feeling. Like any someone said to me, um, what what colour spaniel do you like? And and what and I'm like, any colour looks good in red. Like it does, doesn't it? They all look good in red. Red is a great colour, and at the same time, I feel like you can't look at what everyone else is doing. You have to do your best. What else might you see in the dog when pressures become too much? Because I think this is really telling for me.

SPEAKER_01: 13:39

So the dogs will displace, so they'll go and have happen to sniff somewhere else or look somewhere else or whatever. They may shut down, so they may suddenly not be able to do something and fail at doing it or not engage in doing it. They they may throw in some random behaviors, so they'll do something completely other because they don't understand, or you might see frustration, so you'll see them start to get agitated, you'll see them start to bark or vocalize, and so they can go in all sorts of different directions when when put under pressure. So for my dogs in dog sports, if I put too much pressure on, then they will underperform. It won't be so when I'm in the ring and I'm performing with my dogs, uh, there is a zone that I can get into with them. I don't know whether you ever get there in agility, but certainly in obedience, because we're so closely connected to the dog, then we can we can be in in flow with them. And and I know that if I move in a way that is a right for that dog, and we are completely in harmony and in step, it will all be absolutely wonderful. And when you get that, it's it's a it's a dream.

SPEAKER_00: 15:02

And flow is one of those spaces that we all want to get into as often as we can. It's the time, it's it's when you forget time. Yes, it's when everything kind of stands still, and and I've definitely been in agility, and also on horses, and also often for me, it involves animals. So often that's one of my best flow spaces. It could be feeding fish, even like it's often in much feeding chickens, it often involves animals, but flow space for me is you lose all sense of time and you're just connected and you're at one and you can forget everything, like you're just in that space, very, very present space. Yeah, for me, what I see in in fallout in competition dogs in particular is they can leave the ring, they can actually try and avoid being near the handler. I watched a dog only this weekend, went wrong, and the handler went, Well, that's not good enough, and the dog just bolted out of the ring. And that for me makes me really sad because I don't think the owner intends that to happen, and I don't think the dog enjoys that experience, and so ultimately let's not let that happen and let's manage our emotions enough to not ever let the dog feel like they were inadequate there. And at the end of the day, they're dogs and they're they're participating in something that we're choosing for them, not their choosing. And I also feel that I see a lot of dogs go over arousal as well. The pressure can kick them up a gear, and I've had to learn to manage my own arousal with Skittle. So actually, to just round myself a little before I run her, because if not, I'm high as a kite, she's high in a high as a kite, and actually it's camera party. And so I think you can see them go up in reactivity, or you can see them just want to leave and actually get out of the space. And I've seen dogs leave when they go wrong. And I know a really brilliant dog, actually, fast, fast dog, and you watch her go slow, or another one I see on pressure is they start their round slow. So instead of coming out and going wham, bam, here I am, they come out and be like, little thing like wallflower shrinking. And I hate seeing that. I really hate seeing that, and I think that that's where we need to do better. And someone like you or me would prep the dog for those environments and keep prepping and bang and teach them up and the toys and frisbees and keep the energy up. Whereas you'll see a lot of handlers accept that level to the point that it becomes accustomed to that level. I don't want the dog to become accustomed to that level of I suppose, compliance. They're complying, but they're not actually enjoying the experience. I don't want that. They're repressed, just the same as children used to be.

SPEAKER_01: 17:11

That the they get squashed down by the pressure put on them by the handler.

SPEAKER_00: 17:17

It's interesting that when you say squash, like Liza, when she goes out to compete, like we have zero expectations, and she puts so much on herself, she's like, I'm winning this. We're like, Are you? She's like, Yes, I am. So yeah, it's it's an interesting one, isn't it? Like, actually, and where that comes from. I think the biggest thing, Linda, and you would understand this better from your background. Most of all, we need to understand understand ourselves better and why we are doing this, and sometimes what we're doing it for, and sometimes we need to manage ourselves a bit better. Like sometimes if I'm annoyed, I might even need to give the dog to Matt. Not because I'm gonna be horrible, just because that all of that tension goes straight down that lead. And or if I'm really, really it's not going well, put the dog back in the van. And I I have never ever been at the point where I think badly of the dog, but at the same time, you're so frustrated that that can still come through, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 18:04

Yes, and it's protecting the dog from whatever stuff we need to deal with. So sometimes I will out and I'm gonna do a training session with my dogs. I'm not really in the mood, yeah, but something tells me that that's what I should be doing. I I get the ginotonic. Where's the vodka? No, I I take I get go to the field, I get I park the van up, and I sit, I just sit. I just sit with myself for a while. I might scroll for a bit of Facebook or I might answer some emails, I might just, but I just go into a sort of a me time, yeah. Just and then at some point I'll know I'm ready. And but I don't put that, I don't really want to be doing this onto the dock.

SPEAKER_00: 18:48

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_01: 18:48

I've got to be ready, I've got to be there so that I can give them a hundred percent of myself. It's the same as when I'm teaching, and I've been uh teaching to talking to people this week about it. When I when when you're training your dog, train your dog. When you're talking to a friend, talk to a friend, but don't expect your dog to stay engaged with you if you've started talking to your trainer or talking to a friend.

SPEAKER_00: 19:15

Absolutely, 100%. That's where I love um your collar where you've got the handle on it, or where I just put a finger in the collar. So if I'm talking to someone, finger in the collar, unless I've got a dog who really is very established and knows their job inside out and they can just have their toy and mess about. Yeah, and like some of mine, I'll just give them a tennis ball for a minute and they'll run around and keep themselves warm. But that is a dog who's got that right.

SPEAKER_01: 19:34

But you can't be rude. If I'm if I was talking to you one minute and saying, No, let's talk about this Lauren, and then I turn around and talk to somebody else over here. Completely blank me for this. I feel like well, you'll disengage, right? And you'd go, and then I'll you would go off and do your own thing. Well, if you're going to be like that, I'll go and find something else to do.

SPEAKER_00: 19:51

And that's what we do to our dogs a lot. Especially, especially in obedience, I would see it, because the longevity of the the round, it takes such a long time that there's so many different elements to teach. I think it's really hard.

SPEAKER_01: 20:01

But it's been even if you're doing some training sessions with your helps at home, yeah, and you've been doing some boundary work or you've been you've been doing some orientation game or whatever, tell the dog you're doing it, yeah, do it, yeah, and then tell them it's over. Yeah, we're done now. And then they can go and do that. I love that with the sheeplocks. That'll do.

SPEAKER_00: 20:18

That'll do. That'll do. That'll do. That'll do. That's what mine have. I go, that'll do. That'll do. That'll do. We're done. That'll do. That'll do now. So pressure. I think for me, it's largely about you. It's not actually so much about the dog. I actually think it's largely about you and managing our own emotions in a space where we understand for our dogs. Let's look at emotional intelligence. Like, we want to understand for our dogs where our dogs are and meet them where they're at. Some of my dogs love pressure and they thrive on it. Blink would be a great example. And some of the dogs I've run in the past, Sheba currently, phenomenal little dog to run under pressure, enjoys it. I look at her and like ready, and she's cute as a button. Like she's got the cutest face. And I'm like, ready? And she's like, Bring it on. And I'm like, good. And we're on a championship final start line, and she's going, yep, yep, yep. And I just love that little face, like that face of I like it. Whereas some of my dogs, you need to be much calmer with and just take them and meet them where they're at. Yeah. Pressure, I feel is mostly about the handler. I feel the dog will do the right thing if you do the right thing. And I feel like we need to manage our own, you, Linda. So and it's about our expectations that we put on the dog.

SPEAKER_01: 21:19

Managing them appropriately. When you're you're trying to teach them something new, for instance, or teach them something that you want them to do and they haven't yet got it 100%. Don't keep on and on and on and on until they go, I can't do this. You've got to be sensitive to what you're expecting off them.

SPEAKER_00: 21:35

Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey. I love that saying. I think it's just give it a minute and um gradually.

SPEAKER_01: 21:40

Tiny bits at a time, small steps, small steps, and you will get to the when people say to me, Ask Skittles, what grade is she now?

SPEAKER_00: 21:46

Is she championship? And I said, No, no, she's grade five. And the reason she's grade five is that I actually think that's the right place for her. She's growing her skills, she's building her skills, and by the end of the year, yeah, we'll push her up. But actually, right now it's it's get the it's get the expectations right for both the dog and the handler.

SPEAKER_01: 22:00

Yes, yes. I've I've seen too many dogs scoop through all the classes to championship and then and then uh yeah, blow up. Can't cope.

SPEAKER_00: 22:09

And I think the big thing for all of you to know is when we're talking no pressure, think carefully on your company. Think carefully on the company you keep and the people that are around you, and think carefully on on how you feel around the pressure, pressure there. Most of all, manage your expectations, manage your circle, and you know that the absolute dog space is here for you in all. Thank you, Linda. Bye bye. It's been a blast. We'll see you guys next week.