SPEAKER_00: 0:09

Welcome to the Absolute Dogs Text in a Squirrel podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers, and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. Sometimes owning a dog comes with its downs. And I actually think downs are fairly rare in owning dogs. And I feel like I've had my my dog ownership sort of dream for, I don't know, I've owned dogs for over 30 years. And I mean they haven't always been my own, they've been family dogs, but you know what, they're my dogs in my head. And some of the saddest times are are losing a dog. But I think even more sad than losing a dog is losing a dog in trauma, tragedy, or a young dog or a sudden loss. And I know that experiencing that myself, Debbie, it was like something I'd never felt before. It was like worse than, and I I know you shouldn't say this, and I'm gonna say it anyway. For me, it was potentially worse than losing my parents. It was worse than losing any I I couldn't imagine feeling any more pain. Like it was the most painful experience. And not only did I go through that a year later, almost a year to date, you went through it. And it was a horrendous experience because I was almost reliving it with you. You were messaging me, I was messaging you back, you're in Florida, I'm in Devon. What on earth happened? Like what happened? Because it was sudden, wasn't it? It was really quick.

SPEAKER_01: 1:47

Very sudden.

SPEAKER_00: 1:47

You had a really healthy, healthy dog. So for those of you who don't know, I'm here with Debbie, Debbie and Marley. And Marley, I know, has been loved in the community, as have you, Debbie, actually. You've been loved, your journeys all over like Paddington Bear. You patch your marmalade, you've got your suitcase, and off you go. I know you won't mind saying how how old are you and you're traveling, Debbie? 72. She's 72, she's traveling across the world. High five for that because that's just gorgeous. And this little dog, this special little dog, has taken you on this adventure that you didn't necessarily see coming. And you said, like it's been the most amazing adventure.

SPEAKER_02: 2:21

Yes, it has, very much so.

SPEAKER_00: 2:23

Met so many great people.

SPEAKER_02: 2:24

I met so many people that are like family now to me. And I've been here many times, and it is my second home.

SPEAKER_00: 2:32

It's it's only a few hours away, isn't it? Only a few. And um when you you came on this holiday of a lifetime, and then you said it was once. Once. And how many times are we in? Probably about eight times. I love it. And and yet this huge happiness has been created, and this huge joy, and there's this moment of why me, and what the hell is this about? And what happened?

SPEAKER_02: 3:00

Well, I can say that the last day that was normal for us was on my birthday. In the States, Memorial Day falls toward the end of May, and May 26th was my birthday, and we started the day like every other day. We had a new badge that we were working on, we were working on Cavaletti. And you're taking videos, everything looked great. Everything looked great, and we did not see anything that would have looked remotely like a problem. The next morning, my husband said he was fine outside, but when I got up, he didn't come to me as quickly. He was slower, he didn't seem as happy, he wasn't wagging his tail, and he didn't stay with me, he went and laid down. And when I went over to him, I noticed he was shivering a little bit, and I I thought he was hurting somehow. Later in the morning, he wasn't walking normally. I went to take him out, and his back was arched and his tail was tucked, and he'd take a couple of steps and he'd sit.

SPEAKER_00: 4:10

So he was showing some pain.

SPEAKER_02: 4:11

He was showing pain, and I thought he hurt his back. That's all I could think of. So I made an appointment with the vet. We had an appointment that afternoon. He did all kinds of manipulations, but right before we left for the vet, he vomited. And that's not really that unusual because he's had times in the past where he would have a tummy ache or something, and it would be short-lived. So we got to the vet and he did manipulations on his all of his extremities, down his back. He said nothing that he could find was a problem there. He jumped up to say hi to the vet tech. And so, and he was a little more active because he was kind of lethargic during the day before the appointment. So he took his temp because I told him about the shivering, and it was 103.1. And a high end for normal on a dog is 102.5. So it was starting to look like maybe something was going on, but because he had just had all of his lab work and his yearly checkup in January, so just four months prior, we didn't get labs. He sent him home with antibiotics just in case there was something developing, and we had anti-nausea medication, but he couldn't keep him down. And that night he vomited three more times and again in the morning. So I called and I said, I want him checked. I want to know what this is. We were getting ready to go on a cruise. I'm not gonna leave if he's not well, and I didn't want to leave him with anybody, and that was so close to happening and sad. So I wanted him worked in with lab work with x-rays, and so they brought him in that afternoon. And when he came when he got the x-rays and and the labs done, he came in and he said, Is there anything he could have eaten that was toxic? Because of his lab values were just off the charts. His liver enzymes were terrible, his white blood count was up. But we hadn't seen him eat anything, and he's always with us outside on a leash. If he's out in the backyard on it by himself, he's always supervised.

SPEAKER_00: 6:26

And I remember at that point thinking, God, this sounds way too familiar. Like I couldn't understand it. I couldn't understand what was happening. I knew I was pushing you to get in faster and push for results quicker and get blood stun. And what happened next?

SPEAKER_02: 6:40

So he said, because he was asking me that, do we have sago palms in the yard? Anything he could, and I said, no, that I really don't think so. And he said, Well, his liver's failing, and we need to get him hospitalized today. And we need he needs fluids, he needs IV antibiotics, he needs IV nausea medication. And I didn't want to leave him at the vet because they didn't have anyone there overnight.

SPEAKER_00: 7:06

Which sounds completely sensitive.

SPEAKER_02: 7:07

And you said that you had that same scenario.

SPEAKER_00: 7:09

Yeah, the same scenario with Tokyo where they'd said he's gonna stay in the surgery, and I said no, he's not staying here, there's no one here. And and Tokyo had had like he he needed he needed 24-7, he needed vet care. Exactly. And we were in a place where they didn't do 24-7, which was very stressful. Nobody had 24-7 in where we were in France. You need 24-7 vet care, you need specialist vet care at that point.

SPEAKER_02: 7:30

And and even though I've been going to that practice for 30 years, we'd had two other cockers before Marley, but he understood, and I said, We have a new ER right down the street from us, a pet ER. And he said, But before I call the treatment plan, I want to check his gallbladder. And I think he was trying to just think through what could this be.

SPEAKER_01: 7:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 7:50

So they took him back and did an ultrasound. And he came back in and he said he has a gallplatter, gallbladder muco seal. I had never heard of it before. He said it's an emergency surgery. We need to get it removed. We don't want it to rupture. Don't know if it had ruptured at that point. I've since learned that half the dogs have a rupture before they're diagnosed. Okay. Because it happens so quickly. It's a silent type of a condition. But so we were going to try and get the surgery done that afternoon. But it was already 3:30, going on four o'clock. And the surgery center where we were going did not have time. The other option was an hour and a half away. This one was 45 minutes away. And because our vet had used them before and was comfortable there, he said that if that's what I wanted to do, just let him know and he would call it in. They couldn't do it. They said to bring him in at eight o'clock the next morning. So I was a little nervous about bringing him home. I just felt helpless because it was I couldn't do anything until the next morning. But I also did call the poison control.

SPEAKER_01: 9:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:10

Even though the the ultrasound did show a mucus seal, and it looks like a sliced piece of kiwi on an ultrasound. It's very recognizable. I did call poison control and I did tell them all of his abnormal labs and what was going on with what the diagnosis from RVET was. And they said it was all consistent with a gallbladder mucocyal and that they did not feel he had ingested anything toxic. So that made me feel a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00: 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:41

So we just had to wait until the next morning. The surgeon felt that he actually gave me some hope. Marley was acting more active. He said he had great body condition, and most cockers that come into them are overweight. He said it makes it better for recovery and anesthesia. But he said it was going to be a two-hour surgery. But they did find a nodule on his spleen, and they said that they recommended him have his spleen removed at the same time because if it came back as a malignancy, they would have to go back in after a new surgery, a big surgery. So I agreed to that. But now I'm starting to get a little more nervous because now two organs are going to be removed. So he said it would have added 15 minutes to the surgery. And we had already gone through all the risk factors and everything before, which is hard to do.

SPEAKER_00: 10:37

Always, you know, when you sign the forms, everyone, every you feel the same. You feel the same whether you're signing it for yourself, a child, whether you're signing it for a dog, like a cat. It's a horrible form to sign because it always gives you the worst case scenario.

SPEAKER_02: 10:49

Because he said, I have to ask you the bad question.

SPEAKER_00: 10:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:51

You know, and it was hard for me even to talk about it. But so after an hour and 45 minutes, he called back. And I thought, well, it's a little early. Yeah. But he said that he wanted to confirm my wishes about CPR because his heart had stopped on the table. It was due to a vagal response in the body because of the excessive bleeding from the gallbladder was so inflamed that it caused excessive bleeding, which triggered that response that can happen sometimes in surgery. Unfortunately, it happened to Marley. And he said it's very hard to recover them when that happens, but they tried. But it just it didn't work. And it was a nightmare.

SPEAKER_00: 11:44

And I think when something like that happens, that phone call, that conversation, that I remember looking into the eyes of the vet tech that came in and said to me that the bloods for Tokyo were fatal, really, final. Like if we didn't move him and get him on dialysis, he would die. But at that point you kind of know where you're going. And we knew we couldn't get him there because there was no dialysis machine within six, seven hours.

SPEAKER_02: 12:15

It was the most unreal, surreal experience. It's like an out of body, isn't it? It's like you just it's the worst loss I've ever had. And I even had my husband take the second call because I just didn't think I could deal with it. And you just have to you just have to try and somehow find a way to come to grips with it. And he was only six years old. And it's one of those silent conditions that can develop so quickly. And the surgeon told me it's like the straw that broke the camel's back was when it was totally blocked and not the bile duct was blocked. So all that toxin was backing up, the liver enzymes and everything were high. And it just that's when the symptoms started. He did tell me, because I asked him a few days later when I had to make my wishes known about his body. I asked him, I said, Can I ask you a question? Would it have made a difference if we had had it done a day early? And he said, try not to do the what ifs.

SPEAKER_00: 13:28

No.

SPEAKER_02: 13:29

He said, I really don't think it would have made a difference. You know, his heart stopped because of a condition of a response with the body that it might have happened if it had been a day earlier. But he said it had ruptured already. They found that it had ruptured, which meant his prognosis would have been a lot poorer. Probably less than 50%. And I when I look at it now, I think I'm glad he didn't go through a a two-week plus recovery that could have been painful and still he not make it. So I'm I'm glad that he didn't have to go through that part of it finding out it had ruptured. So we just deal with not having him now.

SPEAKER_00: 14:14

And I think that's that's probably one of the hardest moments, isn't it? The reality that it is what it is. And I have had, as you know, a a couple of years of loss really. I've had from from Tokyo to Easy to Dad. I think uh loss is different and it's so different and it's so individual. It is, it's so individual. Like I can't say that your loss is similar to anyone else's loss or to anyone else's loss. There the the feeling of grief is is huge, and the what ifs are huge and if-onies, and but the reality is it is what it is, and I think that's probably one of the hardest things to sit with it.

SPEAKER_02: 14:51

Yes, it is, because I didn't have another dog at home to love. And it did, I have to say, affected me physically. And there is a syndrome called broken heart syndrome in with medicine, and it's true. But I was wearing a monitor because my cardiologist was concerned about my my health because I have a condition that my heart will speed up real fast.

SPEAKER_00: 15:17

So I already was wearing this monitor, but I found out I had to go to the ER one time because I was having so many palpitations and like the stress, the anxiety, and sudden loss, isn't it? I know Mum has had similar, I know you and Mama are chatting away. You're good friends, best buddies. I think that that heart monitor she has has very similar. And it it when when that there are those moments of high stress, really it's high stress, and it is.

SPEAKER_02: 15:45

And when I was followed up with my cardiologist, he told me that I had a run of 218, which was part of the syndrome that I have, and I didn't remember it. And he said, You push the button, and I asked him when it was, and it happened to be the same date and time as when my husband brought his ashes home. So it's just it can really physically affect stress and emotions can really affect you.

SPEAKER_00: 16:11

So I suppose knowing your journey with Mali, give us some of the highlights because there are some amazing highlights. And I know the same for me. I you can't the best bit is you can't take away from what you had, right? You you had something amazing, and I think that's something I've sat with a lot for myself that's helped. These things did happen, and these things were amazing. So go on, give us a couple of highlights, a couple of really good moments.

SPEAKER_02: 16:36

Just being in this community has been one of the biggest highlights.

SPEAKER_00: 16:41

And you've been such a brilliant inspiration to the community. I know you're part of a cocker community, and I know you go in there and you there with them, don't you?

SPEAKER_02: 16:47

And they're he's become really popular in both both the groups, and it makes me feel good that he is. But it's also I think one of our most favorite things to do besides just training in general. And I developed a passion for dog training.

SPEAKER_00: 17:03

Oh, didn't you just? Because I mean you were a hairdresser, a nurse, and you said you've never found your purpose.

SPEAKER_02: 17:08

Never found a lot. And this is just something that lit me up every day. And I think that's what's hard right now, because I don't have that. But he loved tricks, absolutely loved tricks.

SPEAKER_00: 17:21

And they just made you and him light up, didn't you? Like you just and they gave you a bit of a mission and a goal.

SPEAKER_02: 17:26

He had the biggest smile and that little tail would wag, and and then we went into dance.

SPEAKER_00: 17:32

Yeah, absolutely. And and and your dance and with him, it was just gorgeously connected, right? Just loved it.

SPEAKER_02: 17:40

And it it really did help his confidence. He loved Cavalletti.

SPEAKER_00: 17:45

Yeah, and then hoop. He was brilliant, that too, wasn't he? He was a hoop star. He did. He was a hoop star. So I know you said you don't have that yet. And I think that's really important when you said you don't have another dog at home and you don't have that sort of yet. I think Debbie, you're an amazing trainer. You've got a huge passion. And I think this is something that we spoke on this, and you said you'd never found a passion like this, right? Like explain that to everyone.

SPEAKER_02: 18:59

It's just unless you've unless you've never had it and then experienced it, it's hard to explain it. I mean, I was the oldest of eight kids. I went cosmetology school, I went to nursing school, I spent 25 years as a hairdresser, 20 years as a nurse. And they were nice professions. It just didn't, it didn't, I didn't realize how much I was missing by not having the passion that I have now with dog training. And it just made me so excited to get up every day and to work with a little dog like him.

SPEAKER_00: 19:37

You loved it. You loved it. You loved it.

SPEAKER_02: 19:39

And I am a friend, good friend, suggested that I write a book. So I have started doing that. I've gotten the first three chapters written. Gorgeous. And quite a few of the other little parts.

SPEAKER_00: 19:57

Because I think talking about it and writing it down or journaling or all of those things. Now, we also said you haven't got that at home right now. What are your plans?

SPEAKER_02: 20:09

I'm working and in contact with a few breeders, and there's some options for later in the year, first part of next year, that I want to get another American cocker. I just love the breed. He'll be it would be my fourth one. I was just worried about my age a little bit because if the next one lives as long as Marley's predecessor was 17, Buddy was 17. And I thought he was the best dog. He was not reactive to things. He took everything in stride. He lived to 17. And if Marley lives to, I mean, if our next one lives to 17, I'll be let's not.

SPEAKER_00: 20:50

Let's not. You've got a lot of a community around you, you don't even need to think about it. So I think the biggie here, and I think this is this is important, is that actually you are looking forward. Yeah. So as much as you have loved your journey here, there's still an opportunity to look forward.

SPEAKER_02: 21:09

And I am considering a business.

SPEAKER_00: 21:13

Oh, listen to this. I love this. Go on, tell everyone about it.

SPEAKER_02: 21:16

Well, it's in the early stages, but I can't plug it. I've had I a couple of years ago, I started a website and never finished it. And the business was going to be joyful wiggle butts.

SPEAKER_00: 21:29

Yeah, because they do have a wiggle butt, don't they? Katie has this wiggle butt. Like she really wiggles.

SPEAKER_02: 21:36

I just I kept I have imposter syndrome really bad. And I'm worried about my age. And but I am gonna think I'm gonna start developing that more. And I want to do online, maybe stick with puppies or even just pop spaniels. And tricks and tricks, and yeah, and just show how tricks can be strung together into dance routines. And even though they weren't perfect dances, they were perfect for us.

SPEAKER_00: 22:03

Oh, they were so beautiful, and you and him just had that sync, that connection. Now, you talked about working with a couple of other breeders to try and find maybe your future, your future pal. And I think this is something that so many people get they they feel very guilty about, or they feel very like they're trying to replace something, or and and I think this is something that's important to talk on. We've lost two young dogs. We lost Riot, who um was Matt's young dog, that must be about 12 years ago, I would guess, 13 years ago, a long time ago. We lost him at four, and we lost Tokyo at five. And for me, we both dealt with that very differently. Matt didn't want another dog, and I desperately did. And some people heal in one way, and some people heal in another, and some people need a real absence, and other people need a connection. And whichever you are, and whichever you guys are at home, it's okay, and it's okay to be that. And I know that Molly would always love to see you happy in training and doing all the good things.

SPEAKER_02: 23:01

Well, I think as would you him. I think that I can use what he taught me to help other people.

SPEAKER_00: 23:08

And for example, you started Molly in what in what way? How did how did Molly's training start? Because he didn't always start with games-based learning, right?

SPEAKER_02: 23:15

And that's how it led me to absolute dogs, is because there were some methods that I was being told to use that I just didn't agree with. And when the the last trainer used the choke chain, and I just couldn't, I couldn't feel comfortable using it. And she told me, well, for some reason he doesn't think he needs to listen to you. You're too nice. And that was like the turning point right there, because I'm not gonna change who I am. I'm not gonna change the way I think a dog should be treated. And I knew there had to be a kinder way out there. And when I found you guys, it just I really got tears.

SPEAKER_00: 23:55

Oh, I love that. And I love that you immediately felt that you'd found your home, hadn't you? You'd found your home in dog training and you haven't really been anywhere since. To the point that actually you were scared to go to another dog training class because you didn't ever want him to go through that. You didn't want him to go through that. And and this is, I suppose, one one of those sort of good things that you'll get to do. You'll get to do it from the start.

SPEAKER_02: 24:18

Does that excite you? It it does. And there's some things that I know that I can do better. For example, I didn't realize, I mean, he learned very well with luring, and I did not fade it quick enough to where it was very hard because he expected to be shown always watching my hands, and I think that knowing more about mechanics now, I mean, I love your your classes on that, that I think that's gonna make some of the stages easier.

SPEAKER_00: 24:50

Way easier.

SPEAKER_02: 24:52

And so, even some lessons that I learned. I mean, there was one point that we've had hurricanes several times. And just because of all the games that we played for confidence and optimism, the hurricanes were just not a big deal. We got through that, we played games, he didn't, he was not scared, he was a little nervous because of the loud noise, but it just it was wonderful. And also, I filmed a lot of our sessions a lot. I have thousands.

SPEAKER_00: 25:26

That's I mean, that's such a lovely thing, isn't it? Because for me, I find it hard to go back and watch Tokyo. I haven't had a dog like that. He's like one of a kind um for me, and I have had other dogs and I've still got other dogs, and for me, uh, it goes through your head, isn't it? Why him? Yeah, why why him? Why him? And again, you might feel guilty for saying that. I did, I felt guilty for saying it, but I was like, why him when there are so many dogs that are aggressive, unwanted, out there not in pounds, like on put to sleep registers, or have bitten, or why this dog? Why this dog?

SPEAKER_02: 26:01

And yet, I suppose they're gonna leave some kind of legacy behind.

SPEAKER_00: 26:06

When you watch those videos, you also realize quite how when you watch those videos, you also realize quite how how much they've also been able to teach the world, how much they've been able to because your journey, you've got people all over the world, haven't you? This week here in Devon, people have come up and said, Debbie, Debbie with Marley.

SPEAKER_02: 26:25

I know, they know me, and I I wish I knew everybody that has it just I'm so I love that he touched people.

SPEAKER_00: 26:37

And I hope he can continue to touch people with your journey, your journey has, your journey has, and the more that you're sharing, I've said you've got full permission to share as much as you like in the community. You have full permission if you want to put things on the absolute dogs page, there is full permission. I think that a journey like that is so special. It's so special, and I think it's your way of I remember watching a movie and and basically it said we're not forgotten until it stops playing or stops being talked about.

SPEAKER_01: 27:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 27:04

And I like that. I think it's maybe uh maybe a Mexican tradition or something similar, Native American maybe, but but it was definitely that type of mentality of the it's the tradition of when you stop talking about it, that's when it's done. Let's not stop.

SPEAKER_02: 27:18

Yeah, and everybody up here has been so wonderful and supportive, and it's really helped me get through some of the the pain.

SPEAKER_00: 27:25

Being here alone. Being here alone, you can see that you've healed day by day. Yeah. So each day you seem a little bit stronger, a little bit more level, a little bit more breathing in the air, taking in the countr countryside, taking in the culture, like that you're in your happy place.

SPEAKER_02: 27:39

It's only been nine weeks, so it's still fairly very early days. But I know that I can get through it, and I I'm in the best place to do it.

SPEAKER_00: 27:47

Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Now, Debbie, anybody who's listening, I know they're gonna love hearing about Marley, seeing Marley. Guys, if you want to see more on Marley, I know that Debbie, you've got more to share. So we'll make sure some goes out on the um absolute dogs page. Let's put a video together and let's maybe have that out on the absolute dogs main page so people can see it. And please share in the community in the circle space as well. For anyone who's listening, who's struggling, who's had a tough time. You know what the other thing I'm gonna say, and I'm gonna say this completely aware of it for myself. I I did have a level of therapy after losing my dog. And I can see that it was it was all of it was all of it for me, losing everyone, but probably my dog most. And so don't feel shy of having some help. I think having help for me, it gave me huge perspective, it gave me huge gratitude, it gave me an ability to anchor on what was good, and it also gave me an ability to hold on to what we had had and also appreciate where we were, where we are now. And so, if there is an opportunity for you to receive help, whether that in the UK we have free help that we can get, like talk sort of works that you can get hold of, or various through GP or through your doctor, equally there is paid help as well. And and that's what I did. I went and got a great, a great therapist actually, and she's worked with me ever since losing Tokyo because I I just didn't have I didn't have a handle on it. I really didn't have a handle on it. I just couldn't get with it. And and for me, the trauma of it is different. It's I've lost lots of dogs, I've lost elderly dogs. I I lost my first dog, Baron, when I was four, and I was there, and I I I remember like I lost Bella, I lost Lucy, I remember losing them. I remember Poppy putting to sleep in the field. I remember all those moments, but never had I felt sadness like this.

SPEAKER_02: 29:31

It's the same with me. I had many dogs die over the years, and it just was not like this.

SPEAKER_00: 29:36

This is a trauma. This is a trauma. I never had a heart dog that they what they call a heart dog, and now I understand completely what that was, and the trauma of for me hearing your hearing your messages and realizing there was like a point at what you really lean in, and there's a point at what to run away from it because I could feel every bit of that.

SPEAKER_01: 29:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 29:55

Like I I knew it so well, and and it being a year since I'd lost Tokyo, I knew it all so well, like I was feeling it all for you, and and I think that level of trauma is so different. So, guys, if you're listening and you need some help, don't be scared to reach out, don't be scared to find the therapy or the talkworks or whatever is the free service local to you, or for me it was a paid service. And um, I work with a lady still every three to four weeks, and I have a session, I process, I talk it through. It's just given me better um skills to deal with it.

SPEAKER_02: 30:27

And I just want to thank everybody in the community that gave me so many lovely messages. I couldn't respond individually to everybody, but they meant so much to me, knowing that he was loved like he was, and it just meant a lot.

SPEAKER_00: 30:43

Thank you for being here, Debbie. Thank you for telling everybody your story.

SPEAKER_02: 30:46

Thank you so much for letting me share his story.

SPEAKER_00: 30:48

And let's keep sharing his story, and everyone cannot wait to hear about your future.