SPEAKER_02: 0:09

Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sext in a Squirrel podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers, and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. Hello and welcome to the Sex in Squirrel Podcast, podcast that gives you real life dog training results. Now, I was loading a pony this morning into a horse box, and sometimes it's not about dog training, it's actually about learning animals and thinking animal and being around animals. Now I'm joined by the wonderful Nicole. And Nicole, you're a farm animal vet. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01: 0:46

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02: 0:47

And what made you choose farm animals?

SPEAKER_01: 0:50

Well, so I always thought I wanted to be a small animal orthopedic vet. Very different. Yeah, very cool. You'd have been inside, you'd have always been cozy, you'd have had clean nails. Yeah, yeah, essential. Yeah, so because I I have a friend called Tom who's absolutely amazing orthopedic surgeon. I literally idolized him. I was like, I want to be like him, I want to be like him. And then in third year of vet school, when we started placements, started doing clinical EMS. I went to the hospital where he worked at the time to do two weeks of placement. Sorry, Tom, if you're listening. I've never been more bored in my life.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28

You were like, I this was like my first placement in a solicitor's office. I was in the solicitor's office, it was dingy, it was damp, and I was like, I don't sign up for this. Yeah. I don't sign up for this. I don't want to work in this office. I don't want to work inside. Go on, tell me more.

SPEAKER_01: 1:42

So, and then immediately two weeks after that, I went and did a replacement at the farm section of the same practice. And I was like, this is for me, this is more like it. Out in the sun, driving around, everybody knows their clients really well. You start for a cup of tea, someone might feed you lunch. It's just so much more pleasant than standing for hours lecturing animals and watching a hip replacement or a stifle. And I suppose when you're watching someone who's an absolute perfectionist, it doesn't happen quickly, does it? Um yeah. I still hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02: 2:22

So funny, so funny. So on a day-to-day basis, what might your day look like?

SPEAKER_01: 2:26

So quite like I do a lot of reproduction work, so um most mornings start with scanning cows for pregnancy diagnosis or other fertility reasons. So get on the road normally for like 7:30, 8 o'clock, go and scan some cows, probably stop for a cup of tea, and then maybe go and scan some more cows or possibly covering emergencies, depending on what's on the diary. It cause could be anything, it could be a pet goat, it could be a cow with its prolapsed uterus, it could be a carving, it could be a lambing, it literally anything.

SPEAKER_02: 3:04

And it is an interesting space, isn't it? Because I had a vet out here to put a goat to sleep actually, and it was it was very different to what I was expecting because I didn't realise how it could go very stressfully wrong if you made it stressful. Like she didn't want to be caught, she didn't want any needles in her, and yet they couldn't raise a vein. So they then struggled to raise a vein on her. And and for me, it suddenly gave me a whole new realisation of this is not your pet dog. And with your pet dog, you've got your lead and your collar, and you're very used to handling them, and they're very used to you handling them. Whereas with the goats, if they're flighty, or with the sheep or the the lambs or whatever else it is. I mean, we were catching lambs yesterday, yeah, and they were quite easy, really. I mean, I say that you were catching them.

SPEAKER_01: 3:44

I was definitely going, Nicole, you did great. Yes, good work. I was so surprised how easy a good dog, wasn't it? Because quite often I will go somewhere to somebody who's got like 15 sheep, and they'll be in a pen that sort of size. You never get near them.

SPEAKER_02: 4:00

And you just never get near them, will you? You just won't, but the dog holds them. Yeah. So when we you did look and you you made me giggle. You said, the pen's quite big, isn't it? I just could see your face going, oh dear lord, Lauren. And I was like, Well, and you're like, how often do you actually handle them? I'm like, Well, I don't really. And you're like, how friendly and tame are they? I'm like, well, they're not really. So but the dog did hold them, and actually it went very, very and oh, the best story, I have to tell the best story. We were looking for the boy. Now, I know that they call these boys weathers. I've got no idea why he's a weather, but he's a weather. Tell everyone what a weather means. It's just a castrated male. It's a castrated boy. So we were looking for a boy with a willy, and we had six girls, and we had one boy. Now we let the first sheep out, didn't we? And we forgot to check whether she was a girl or a boy. Yeah. Anyway, we got right down to the last little black sheep, and what happened?

SPEAKER_01: 4:49

It was amazingly, that was the boy.

SPEAKER_02: 4:51

And he was staying, right? He was staying in there. It was the most it was like one of those moments of how did the universe? And you literally were looking, and you were like, really? Like you didn't believe that he was gonna have a bully. But he did. So, anyway, stories, stories aside, have you had any real highs in your like career in terms of I don't know, saving someone or like I I know for me having um dogs over the years, my highs can look look different actually. But when something's really like blink coming out of a Patella op and being right and making her then an agility champion, winning 13 tickets, even though I was told she really shouldn't do agility. Or I suppose another one for me, and I know that sounds odd, but a really good put to sleep. And with Poppy, my first dog I put to sleep, and she was on the daisies, and it was a lovely sunny day, and it was it wasn't a day too soon, it wasn't a day too late, it was just right. And even with Easy, putting her to sleep was the right decision, and I did it really well, and I felt very at peace after doing it. So, I don't know, have you had anything in your career that you think that really went well or that was how it should have been? And I was chatting to Dave from the police not that long ago, and he said one of his highlights was like searching the G7 summit and actually like his dog searching the Queen's funeral, like those were some of his highlights for me in a vet capacity. My vet I think should be very proud of how our put to sleep went because as much as it's not anything people want to talk about, it's real, it happens. If we don't talk about it, they don't happen well. I think that actually people can understand why it happened well because a lot of prep went into making sure it was all very smooth. So, yeah, what have you what have you had in your career that's been yet that's been a good moment?

SPEAKER_01: 6:22

I think like every time you go to a carving and you get a live calf, that's always like that buzz never goes away. Or a cesarean, and obviously you do get some that dead before you've even tried to get them out, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02: 6:35

But yeah, I think a live calf just born, and they're massive. How long is gestation period in cows?

SPEAKER_01: 6:41

Oh, nine months.

SPEAKER_02: 6:42

That's a long time, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 6:43

Same as people.

SPEAKER_02: 6:44

It's a long time. What's what's a horse? I know you're not horse vet, but what's a horse? Yeah, it's long, isn't it? I do know it's long, it's long. It just feels very it feels like a long time. Do cows ever have two calves?

SPEAKER_01: 6:54

Yeah, they can have twins, they can even have triplets. And they really pull triplets out, like in 13 or 14 years of vesting.

SPEAKER_02: 7:01

And I take it that that farmers don't want triplets because they're probably complex, but do you want twins?

SPEAKER_01: 7:07

Um, not really in cattle. Okay. Sheep, yes, all day long. Yeah. Not not in the city.

SPEAKER_02: 7:12

Not in cows, too big.

SPEAKER_01: 7:13

Just because they they put so much of their reserves into the pregnancy. Yeah, they've got not much left. With dairy cows, they will they'll carve twins quite often, and then their body's pretty much exhausted before it needs to start again. Yeah. So beef cattle, not not so much of an issue, but they quite often don't grow as well as a single calf.

SPEAKER_02: 7:34

Yeah, so actually they don't mind having singles. Singles isn't a bad thing.

SPEAKER_01: 7:37

This is a good preferred generally, yeah. Other other sort of successful things, I'm just thinking recently, had a calf born with really contracted tendons, and quite often you can cast them or splint them and sort of stretch them out. So, what I mean by contracted tendons is that rather than being able to place their little hooves on the floor, they are sort of pucked underneath.

SPEAKER_02: 8:01

Okay, so that's definitely a problem.

SPEAKER_01: 8:03

Yeah, because and then the more the more they walk on there, yeah, they'll they'll learn to do that, you know, wounds on there and stuff. So there was one, there's been a few recently actually, uh read about this technique about surgically cutting a couple of the tendons, and anybody horsey will be horrified by this, the thought of this. But it you basically you need to get an animal that is able to walk and wait, wait there comfortably and then enter the food chain because as brutal as it sounds, that is what farm animals are for. So yeah, we uh tried this surgical technique where you cut what do we cut superficial and deep digital flexor and then cast them back up again for two weeks and took the casts off, and amazingly it's a cow walk. Um and you would think that after cutting both of those tendons, they would be you know like collapsed or some sort of um like a but not like a dog with a carpal injury, that sort of thing. But but no, it's absolutely fine, and you wouldn't be able to pick it out that was back in the summer.

SPEAKER_02: 9:02

So that was that's like a big win in the and then I suppose there's always lows in either a career or what you're doing. I mean, for me for me, one of my dog ownership lows was losing Tokyo, and for me it was just traumatic, beyond sad, and still like makes me it's hard, like it's hard, and and that was definitely a low, and it was a low in the sense that the whole time I didn't think it was gonna happen. The whole time I still thought it wouldn't happen to him, yeah. And you just don't realise how cruel stuff can be, any lows that you've had that are okay to share.

SPEAKER_01: 9:31

Yeah, so it is it's a roller coaster of a job, isn't it? There's gonna be like massive highs and massive lows. So I can just I suppose thinking of the one most recently we had a pet goat in to be castrated, and normally, well not normally, but quite often, if they are rubber-ringed within the first seven days of life, yeah, then that'll be that'll do it. Sometimes they're not done earlier, or they can't be if they've you know got a testicle that's not fully descended or something like that. I can't remember the reason for this particular goat coming in to be done, but we brought him into the surgery because we thought, well, we've got the oxygen, if we need it, like it'll be safer. Anyway, he started bleeding after the castration. So we put him in a full general anesthetic, opened him up. He spent spent a long time trying to find this bleeder, found it, tied it off, um, and then he arrested. Oh, okay. Um, and then one of the amazing nurses managed to bring him back, and then he arrested again in recovery and didn't come back. Like anesthetics and ruminants are yeah, much more difficult generally than in than in dogs and cats because they're not routinely done every day. So that that was really difficult. That was a horrible, horrible afternoon. And you never get you or you shouldn't ever get used to things like that. I think if you do, then something's gone wrong.

SPEAKER_02: 10:51

Probably need to be out of vet work. Yeah. No, it's I mean it's it's beyond the sad. And and yeah, you never you always sign the form, but you kind of sign it thinking there's no real risk because it's always been okay before, but yeah, at the same time is a is a big risk. So I suppose on a day-to-day basis, on the whole, do you enjoy do you enjoy your job?

SPEAKER_01: 11:07

Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, there's days when we're TB testing, and I'm like, I could definitely do without having to do this ever. Again. Um, yeah, but but most of the time I do love it, like definitely.

SPEAKER_02: 11:18

Do you get to see working dogs and do you get to see some of the dogs on the in their job? And what would you say about the working dogs you get to see?

SPEAKER_01: 11:24

Amazing, aren't they? It is literally amazing to watch them do what they do, and they're so hardy as well.

SPEAKER_02: 11:29

Oh, so brilliant.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 11:30

And what type of working dogs do you get to see?

SPEAKER_01: 11:32

Collies, kelpies, hunterways. Yeah, that's it. We don't really see any any other breeds, just your herding breeds. And yeah, and it's like where I live and work, there's some really sort of mountainous areas. So yeah, it is amazing to watch them sort of miles ahead of you, and then two minutes later the sheep are in front of you.

SPEAKER_02: 11:52

It's they are it's incredible, it is incredible. So for me, working with animals is a huge privilege, and I'm really grateful that we get to do it on a day-to-day basis and we get to play in whatever capacity we get to play in, like it's it is a privilege and it's a joy. In terms of working with animals, I think there's also a lot to share. So I was trying to teach my daughter just this morning, Liz, he doesn't like loading. Let's work on different things. Load him. No, no, that's not what the horse people do, mummy. And I'm like, I know they don't like to feed them, but I think we should just use food and we should basically play confidence games in the horse box, and we should be moving it around the horse box, and we should be playing it here and playing it there and jumping it around. So that's kind of where my head goes. Like, what I can learn and take across. What have you learned, I suppose, working with animals all day long that maybe you could translate across to a dog sport? And like I said, mine with a horse would be actually you can confidence build with him in the horse box, but actually, it might even just be reading an animal or how to like yesterday, you knew how which sheep to grab and how to grab it, and you knew how to go in and at what moment to do it. Like you went, and there's me like looking going, and when you said, Are you gonna grab? I was like, No, no, Nicole, I don't have a clue where I start. Like, I don't have a clue, I can just strike them. Um but but yeah, you like it's that intuition there. Is it anything you've learned from from your job that you think translates across to any animal or any dog sport or any dog or any like is there anything you think transfers across?

SPEAKER_01: 13:10

I think it's reading their body language and reaction speeds. Yeah, you get scared of the cows. It depends on the context, really. Like, most of the time when they're presented to me, they're in a race or a crush. So but yeah, sometimes, like I suppose you'll sometimes do a cesarean with a cow tied up on a halter and they're strong enough to break that halter. Um very occasionally you will get like full-on aggressive cows. Most of the time, they would rather get away from you. Um bulls, a little bit more dodgy, um, but they're generally well restrained, and it's absolutely fine to, you know, if they're not well restrained, to say, I can't examine that until it's well restrained.

SPEAKER_02: 13:54

Uh to be better restrained for my own safety. Yeah, yeah. They're reading animals well, moving quickly, being um aware, awake, yeah, sort of in that context.

SPEAKER_01: 14:03

Yeah, and I suppose moving cattle and sheep, there's like there's a point around their shoulder that if you stand in front of them, they move backwards, and if you stand behind them, they move forwards. And I think that sort of knowing that and moving cattle and sheep on a daily basis helps me read my dogs and know how comfortable they are with certain things in their space or me in their space, or if I've got too close to them and I've pushed them the wrong way around some equipment or something like that. I think I think it helps in that way.

SPEAKER_02: 14:34

Yeah, no, I think that's I think that's definitely for me, understanding animals working with animals. If some someone's recently gone for a job with dogs with us, and I said, What experience you have and they have a lot with horses and they haven't really had their own dogs a lot. But I do feel as long as they're savvy in the way they're handling horses, they'll be able to transfer those skills over, and vice versa. Most people who handle dogs well, you could teach them as long as they're not scared to handle horses quite well. So I wish you every luck in your vet work. I love what you're doing, Nicole. I love that you translate it to your dogs. I love that you have a real passion about it. I love that you helped me with the sheep yesterday. And we're off to do the sheep again in a little bit, aren't we? We're going to move them. Um, so yeah, good luck in it all, and it's great.