SPEAKER_02: 0:09

Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sext in a Squirrel podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers, and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. Hello and welcome to the Sex and Squirrel Podcast, the podcast that gives you real-life dog training results. I'm joined by Nicole and we're talking sports mixes. Now, Nicole, I had never seen a sports mix. I didn't even know what sports mix was. I mean, it sounds like some sort of pick and mix that you might go and like put on a sports top and a sports trouser and then maybe a different sock. But actually, I dropped my jaw when I was in America. I was competing in America with my dogs, and I dropped my jaw when I saw this little dog move. And this little dog, I think Staffy crosswhip it, and oh my god, the speed. Like, oh my god, the speed. Now I've always been a bit of a purist, so I kind of was like, no, my my cock of spaniels and my border collies. But actually, when I watched this dog, you could really see that she was meant to do that. Like she was absolutely purpose-bred to do that job. Tell me about sports mixes in terms of what you see in Flyball, and tell me a little bit about your dogs and what you think.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22

So, like the original sport mix is the border whippet. As far as I'm aware and concerned, like, I don't think, unless you want small, I don't think you can really improve on the border whippet. Although loads of people will disagree with me, which is fine.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36

So, you when you say border whippet, I always think of like a whippet, like a tiny little dog that sits on a sofa and is all super calm and super cute and like super like like angelic. You're not talking the same kind of whippet as me, are you?

SPEAKER_00: 1:47

Definitely not. So normally, not always, but but sort of generally and historically, the type of whippet used in a sport mix is like one from racing lines. And this sort of thing has been going on in America, Canada, a little bit over in Europe, much longer than it has in the UK. It's only recently, I'd say last sort of nine, ten years, taken off over here for flyball. I know agilities very much still sort of collies and spaniels generally. Uh obviously, there are many other breeds that compete. I don't want to offend anybody.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19

No, there are many other breeds, but typically lots of lots of border collies, lots of shelters, yeah, and lots of spaniels.

SPEAKER_00: 2:25

Yeah. So so yeah, we've got currently in our house, we've got a border whippet, we've got a quippet, which is Kelpi Cross Whippet, we've got a Whip across Staffy. That's it for sport mixes in our house at the moment.

SPEAKER_02: 2:39

Really nice. Really nice. And tell me a little bit about for I I fell in love with Party and Tonic. So tell me a little bit about what you like about Party and what you like about Tonic and how they differ.

SPEAKER_00: 2:49

So Party is the collagen whippet, the border whippet. She's just a perfect combination of the two. With a whip it, like a whip it cross-herding breed. I feel like you've got the cheat code. You've basically you've got all the trainability, you've got all the speed, but you've also got something that wants to go to sleep on your sofa and wants to sleep. You've got the cheat code. Like it literally feels like you've got the cheat code. And even you're always, always in flyball going to get you know more speed than you would from the collie parent. I would say, I'm gonna offend other people. Offend people, and I don't want to offend everyone.

SPEAKER_02: 3:28

Basically, they're super speedy because they're bred for straight-line, fast sprinting, and yet they can course and turn. Yeah, right. So you've got a bit of both with the with the whippet and then the collie added in for the turnability and the trainability.

SPEAKER_00: 3:39

Yeah, exactly. And owning just collie's and a whippet. I I just know I just for me, the border whippet is is perfection. Tonic, the little quippet, kelpie cross whippet, she is she's a faster twitch than Party is. She loves the bark, as most Kelpies do. She's I mean, also the you know, has the speed, has the off switch. She's a little bit smaller just because she's from smaller parents. But I do I wouldn't want a full Kelpie because I I would I don't think I'd ever be able to teach a full Kelpie to just chill. Whereas a Kelpie Cross Whippet, you get all of the Kelpie's.

SPEAKER_02: 4:22

Oh, she's so cute.

SPEAKER_00: 4:23

All of the Kelpie intelligence want the drive, the crazy, but also she likes she takes herself off to bed at eight o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_02: 4:30

Oh my god, living the dream. It actually is living the dream. The other thing, and I was thinking this when I was looking at them yesterday, they've got the best coats and the best sort of like you're you've got like two little smooth coats, yeah. Easy to keep, easy to clean, minimum grooming.

SPEAKER_00: 4:44

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And your first cross will always be smooth. So some people are doing an F2 cross, so they'll you know, maybe cross a border, whip it back to a border collie, and then you might get a longer coat. It doesn't tend to be like a thick collie coat.

SPEAKER_02: 4:59

But they obviously carry the rough gene, whereas a smooth, they don't carry the rough.

SPEAKER_00: 5:03

It's dominant, isn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 5:04

Yeah, the whip it's the smooth dominant, so that is the whole litter will be smooth.

SPEAKER_00: 5:08

Yeah, on your first cross.

SPEAKER_02: 5:09

And so when you looked for party, did you know what you'd be getting? And did you immediately think this is it, I've hit the jackpot, or had you already had an experience of this before?

SPEAKER_00: 5:19

So we already we had Jeff who was a border whippet, who we sadly lost in February, and he so he took our team to new levels basically. He was our first border whippet in the room.

SPEAKER_02: 5:29

And what made you get him in the first place? Like, how did you even like get to that space? Because that is a new adventure, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00: 5:35

It was it was very impulsive. It was I didn't even know this listener was bringing being bred, and then I saw a lady who bred, I think, bred them, shared some pictures. I think it was a bigger litter than expected, and I just felt it like sort of a chance it, and I'd be like, And I think actually she'd held on to Jeff for a little bit longer because like we were last, you know, bottom of the list because she already had a full list. He, as a baby, had had a heart murmur. Okay, but then that resolved by the time he went home. But you know, everybody else had already picked by that stage and he was the one left, but he was just perfect.

SPEAKER_02: 6:16

And I love that as well, because you're a vet, you also have the logic of I do understand that he had a heart murmur, I do understand that it has sort of come right. Yeah, and actually, I do understand that he's my perfect dog. Like you, you're yeah, whereas I think for some average pet owners, they would be a bit freaked out by that because they wouldn't understand that they can resolve, right? They can they can normalize.

SPEAKER_00: 6:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, we already had we had Jeff and we knew, so we knew what we were getting from a border whippet. And then Party had we actually bred her dad for the border collie, so we desperately wanted a puppy from him anyway.

SPEAKER_02: 6:50

So yeah, she's amazing, she's amazing. I love party, she's the coolest little dog. So, in terms of the sports mixes, what do you fancy in the future? Have you got your eyes on anything for your next level? Like, what are you hoping for?

SPEAKER_00: 7:05

What's starting to become quite popular over here at the moment is border whip it cross-whip it. So just a little bit more speed.

SPEAKER_02: 7:12

Oh my goodness, you guys are speed junkies. So when we say sports mix, I think it's worth just letting everyone that's listening know these are purpose bred for the job. So the job is flyball, the job is sports work, they would certainly do agility. We discovered that this weekend, and I know that you've got a new hobby on your horizon because your guys would be so good at agility. But at the same time, like you definitely have like this is very much they've all got homes, they're all wanted. These are all dogs who are highly desirable. Yeah, tell me what you're thinking next for you.

SPEAKER_00: 7:43

Yeah, so I think possibly, I mean, there's many, many health tests to go through. Yeah, she's only had the basics, but potentially we might we might get a whip it stood for party in a couple of things.

SPEAKER_02: 7:55

So beautiful.

SPEAKER_00: 7:56

But yeah, like you say, these are dogs that have probably had way more health tests done than your average pedigree dog, just because you've got two different breeds or more to test on behalf of health-wise. And then there's all of the extra physical sort of health tests that don't necessarily routinely get done for BVA, KC scoring, that sort of thing. Um spinal x rays and stuff that gets sent abroad for assessment, assessment. So yeah, there's there's many, many health tests for her to go through before we even think about it, really. But um, yeah, potentially that that could be our next stop.

SPEAKER_02: 8:33

And so, in terms of the sports world, um, what have you seen as other sports mixes that have been out there and doing well in the sports world? Because for me, when you first said to me a sports mix, I was like, no, no, no, no, no. And this was like what five, six, seven, eight years ago. I remember I was completely alienated. Like, I was like, immediately no. It's like, no, it's weird. Have you ever thought about this? No. It was like an end of conversation. And at the same time, I think that it's only right as a human to be able to go, no, actually, I changed my mind.

SPEAKER_01: 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 9:03

Like that's not like if not, you wouldn't have like progress or improvement or like growth or development. Because now I'm very much happy to go, no, I'm wrong on that. Like, for me, I I I could have made a better decision there. Like, I definitely, until I really watched them, yeah, I was so into the idea that like the purest space, until I really watched them, I just didn't see quite how brilliant like something could be. And and it's because you're going really, really very much fine-tuning for purpose. So you're fine-tuning it for for a job. So, yeah, what other mixes do you see? Because I know obviously in the world that I'm in, border paps are like the thing. Like everyone has a border pap. There's actually quite a lot of collispaniel crosses as well. So there's quite a few of those, and there's some lovely ones in agility. A good friend of ours, Hailey, she has one little Merly cross looking. It's gorgeous, like really gorgeous little dog. And then we also see some obviously sprockers and collie doors and and all of those as well, and then loads of cockpoos, like loads of cockapoos, but I wouldn't say they're specifically sports bred. I'd say the border paps are, but the rest are not specifically sports bred. How about you? What are you seeing other than border whippets?

SPEAKER_00: 10:08

So we we do see a few border paps, and I think they're absolutely beautiful little dogs. For me, they're a bit small, yeah, but for some people they will be perfect. You know, some people want a very small dog. Um so uh but yeah, they're a bit hairy for me. Too hairy. And I'm not saying you couldn't get a smooth one, but it's not guaranteed.

SPEAKER_02: 10:33

What else do you see other than those?

SPEAKER_00: 10:35

So there's a there's a kennel in Canada that produce like a purpose-bred small sports mix. In that sort of breed mix, there's a bit of terrier, collie, whippet, some Malamoir, I believe. Yeah, I don't know what else because I haven't looked at them that closely. And if they're listening, they'll probably be mortified that I've done such a bad job of explaining.

SPEAKER_02: 10:55

Well, then you know, not because I think at the end of the day, we're we're chatting through something that is is still novel to the UK. Yeah. So it's still very, very new to where we are in the UK. And it's not saying that it's right, it's wrong, it's saying that actually people are exploring that, and people are exploring like bread for purpose and fit for purpose. Yeah, and actually, yes, we might have like the BVA and the KC doing their own tests, but actually these might have even different, like more tests. What about the border whippet and staffy?

SPEAKER_00: 11:23

Is that a thing that's done? Actually, one of our team members has just got one of those that he's about 12 weeks old. So his dad is a full whippet, his and mum is a border staffy.

SPEAKER_02: 11:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 11:34

I don't think he's gonna be a high dog, he's already big. Um, but yeah, he's absolutely gorgeous, really, really trainable. He's got like super owners as well who do loads with him, which is really helpful.

SPEAKER_02: 11:46

If anyone was though sat there like me, going no no no no no no no no no, because I did. Like I did sat there when you said to me, and you said to me in a message, you were like, Have you ever thought about what you I don't think you replied the whole day?

SPEAKER_00: 11:58

And I was like, she's ignoring me.

SPEAKER_02: 12:02

Now he's sat in the living room talking, so there you go, you won. You won, you won that one. And so so for me, I am now thinking like, I suppose my mini-American classic, I mean, there's I don't know enough about them, but there's definitely a mixture of breeds behind there. And so for me, when I look at those, like she looks more like a Peer Shep to me anyway. She doesn't ever look like a mini American. And then I look at a lot of the border collies, and they're so different in type, aren't they? You get the real, like sort of athletic ones. I'm sure someone else has put something else in somewhere. Like you just you definitely can see that there's something else gone in at times on on some of those, and I would say the same with with Spaniels. You'll see that the Springers and the Cockers very, very, very similar. At times you can't even tell the difference, right? Because some look like some, some look like the others. For me, the thing that's happening here with with the border whippets and that people are specifically saying this is a sports mix, and I think that's quite an exciting space for the sports sports world to be.

SPEAKER_00: 12:54

Yeah, I I think there's probably some room for well, not room for what's the wrong word, but I think there's a danger of people, other you know, random people catching on to this and sort of marketing an unhealth-tested collie and whip it mix that they've just got to be.

SPEAKER_02: 13:12

Just because they could just put together the same, I imagine, in in the other world as well. So yeah, it's definitely it's definitely something to be careful of. And at the same time, someone who's out there thinking that they might experiment with seeing a dog like this or going to see the dogs like this, flyball has dogs like this that you're seeing frequently, agility in Canada, America, frequently.

SPEAKER_00: 13:31

Yeah, and there are there's people over here that are you know well known in the sports, specifically breeding for these purposes. So I think anybody within the sports, if they would rather go to somebody who, you know, they you know they've got all the health testing behind them, they're happy to share all that information and you know the parents, then there is that option for sports people. I suppose it's more people who don't do the sport and and don't don't know anybody who might, you know, just try it anyway. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 14:00

No, I think I think it sounds like well, after meeting party um and meeting tonic, they're both just an absolute hoot. They're both amazing. Um after having them, would you go back to having pure bread, or do you think you'll always stick with sports mixes now?

SPEAKER_00: 14:14

It's hard, isn't it, because you've got to, somebody's got to have the collies and uh the the purebreds, otherwise you can't do your F1 crosses. But my I've got collies and I've got sport mixes, and the the collies take so much more work. So I don't know. I my ratio of sport mixes to collies will probably always be more sport mixes to collies now because ease of life. Ease of life, exactly. I can I can exercise three parties in the time I can do one hashtag. I suppose hashtags are collie, parties.

SPEAKER_02: 14:45

Parties that would amazing. That's a really nice same as me with the spaniels. I can take five spaniels out and one collie.

SPEAKER_00: 14:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 14:51

So the collies are uh just more work. Yeah, they're always more work, they've always been more work and they always will be more work.

SPEAKER_00: 14:58

And they deserve more of your time, like they require it and they deserve it, I think. Because that's just the thing they are, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 15:05

Well, thank you for introducing me to the idea of sports mixes, changing my mind on sports mixes. It only took about six years, and also for sharing your experience, uh Nicole. They've been a pleasure to train this weekend. I've absolutely loved them, and they're very welcome anytime. And I hope we get to see more of them.

SPEAKER_00: 15:21

Oh, we have an awesome weekend.

SPEAKER_02: 15:24

Amazing weekends.