Why Ball Throwing Worries Us

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If I could ban ball chuckers out of the the marketplace, I really would. I think they're the biggest ones, unfortunately, and they cause the most injury.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sext in a Squirrel podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers, and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. Exercise, Mal. So exercise, a diet that's wise, and you know what, people have always said that's important. Now, when we talk exercise, you're a physio. Tell us about what you do day to day.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

So yeah, I'm a canine, well, I say canine physiotherapist, I'm a small animal physiotherapist, so I can actually do all small animals. It's within my sort of scope of practice. I generally though stay with dogs because they're my own things, but I have done a few cats, I have done a few rabbits as well. Rabbit rehab, rabbit rehab. So mainly canine, but not large animals. So I don't do horses or um any large animal. That's not part of my qualification. And I'm also a hydrotherapist as well, but I see them as an integrated practice, you know. So my although I'm a physio and hydrotherapist, my sessions are integrated. So some I might do land-based, some I might do land and water, some might just do land and some shower, some we might do wald, some, so it all varies. It just really depends on what that individual dog needs at that particular time.

Warm Ups And Controlled Off Lead

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Now, exercise, we were out walking our dogs yesterday, and it just made me think about how specific you are about what you want, how specific I am about how what I want, even in terms of how they interact or how they meet or how they greet or what they do on their walk. And yet there are so many people I wouldn't or couldn't walk with because of how their dogs exercise. Um, sprinting, racing, ball throwing, frisbee chucking, potential um risk and damage and injury for me is really high after experiencing brave with her spinal injury and also just general life, really, and watching how many things can go wrong. And so I've become, I suppose, quite careful on exercise. You're probably more careful again than I am, and I would say even more careful and rightly so knowing what you do and your work and what you see, because I imagine if I saw more, I probably wouldn't even walk and I'd get to a point that just don't even think I can go out one dog at a time. Literally, I'm like, oh my goodness. And when I see people doing frisbees and things, what should we be doing? What shouldn't we be doing? What are things that you'd say an absolute no-no? What things would you do in moderation? How do you exercise? When do you exercise? Why do you exercise? And I know you're dealing with sports dogs day-to-day for your own dog. However, you have got elderly dogs, retired dogs, dogs who haven't necessarily got sports in their future. How does exercise look for you and many of your clients, myself and others, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yeah, I think so. I think generally, sort of on a day-to-day basis, I think for anybody, when going for a walk where you might involve some lead walking, some off-lead walking, or even if it isn't on lead, but you I don't know. I see a lot of people drive, turn up at the place I walk, and they open the boot of the car and the dog just runs out and like runs full pelt down the down this pathway, waiting for a person with a ball chucker to chuck a ball. That for me is sort of almost like an accident waiting to happen. I almost I have to sometimes think this. I'm not working, you're not part of this. I almost want to go around, please don't do that. You know, let me help you, let me show you what would be good for you to do with your dog. So I think really important for anybody is when we get to sort of wherever we're going, or whether we're leaving the house, is start with on-lead walking, start with walking, gradually build that up. So and spend at least sort of 10 to 15 minutes really with that, so that you're gradually warming the dog up, you know, no matter what you're doing. Um that's sort of separate to sports-specific warm-up, but just as a general body warm-up, let the dog sort of get into movement before we sort of introduce any off-lead. And the same with sort of bringing rehab into the equation, you know, when we're starting to sort of bring exercise levels back up towards normal. Again, I will be quite specific about how long they're doing it for on lead, then bring maybe some off-lead, but they choose the area they go to. They're going to choose an area where the dog can't just like have an open field to run in, they might choose a pathway. Us walking yesterday, you chose a particular pathway to let one off because of hunting opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah, I know it's both sides. Yeah, you cannot if he goes through the fence, she really is being particularly pushy because it's it's a square hole that small, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Like it's it's not big. But it would be something like that. I'd be picking like a pathway where there is limited options for the dog to, you know, have more freedom. So I'll be and I'd also be if you've got multi-dogs, picking if we're gonna start to sort of say a dog's coming back from rehab, we're gonna be okay, it's on lead. The first time it's off lead, it's on its own, it's not with others. Then when we start to introduce the other dogs into it, it's like, well, that dog will go off on its own first, then you'll pull it back and you'll put it on lead, you'll let another dog off on its own, and then you'll put that one, pull that one back, you'll put that on lead, and then you'll let your rehab dog back off, but it's gonna be walking with a dog that it doesn't find exciting, then not gonna then, and then we'll be almost like you're really good at this, you'll drop a handful of food and then unclip so that there isn't a an excitement to the release of being like released from a being an on-lead situation to an off-lead situation. It's just it just happens.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

When you say that, it's so funny. You we say it like it's really easy or simple, or it's like that it's common practice because for me, it's very, very normal to scatter some food or to throw some food to distract someone or to interrupt a pattern or to I mean, I feel like I am literally Hansel and Gretel when I go out. I feel like I've got so much food on me that I'm just gonna be dropping my breadcrumbs everywhere. But so many people don't do that, and I think it's just not common practice, it's not something that people do and think about. And for me, it's interrupting or resetting those sprint moments, isn't it, to for safety, yeah, ultimately.

Managing Play Between Multiple Dogs

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Yeah, and then you picked another time when we were going to change direction as well. So, like getting them to come back, scatter food before we actually rather than just turn around and walk the other way when they're all sprinting encouraging that chase after you when there's multiple dogs coming off as well. Or and uh, but I might move, you know, with my sports dog, I might actually use that. They might go off in one direction, I might turn and run the other way because I want to do some sprint training in a safe space, in a safe space, when they're on their own, because I don't want them racing against each other and colliding, colliding. Yeah, and particularly for me, I've got a collie and I've got a spaniel. I don't want, even though my spaniel is quite robust, I don't want my collie knocking her and knocking her over when they're racing together. I do let them have time together as um that was gonna be one of my questions.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

How do you decide and when do you decide it's appropriate for them to play or have time together? Because so many people want to do that. For me, I'm probably the opposite. I probably am quite reluctant to let them whiz around together. And sometimes I see one of your videos and I think, good, Mel, Mel does it. Maybe I could reconsider it. I have had a serious incident with a dog sprinting. So I think it just I think it's you're scarred for life when you watch that. And I've watched it back on camera so many times and gone, nobody actually touched her, and yet she still had a sprinting accident, and yet nobody impacted her. She was running with other dogs, it was high velocity injury. So it was a sprint injury. However, I think it's put me off for life letting dogs sprint. I think I'm like I'm so anti-sprinting. So yeah, how do you decide from because I know from a mental health point of view, I love seeing them play, but from a sports injury or a just a general injury point of view, I think it's more chance of injury when you see the speed and the trees and whatever else they might be playing around.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah, so I a bit like I've just talked about, I'm making sure they're very warmed up, first of all. They will have both been off lead and on lead individually as well, so that their the arousal level is lower because they've had some time off lead on their own, they've done lots of things, they've done lots of sniffing, I might have scattered food. So this will be a good probably half hour into the walk. So, or I'll have hired a field, and I'm but I still walk around the field with my dog on lead, and I'm sure some people think, why have we hired a private field? Walk round them on lead, yeah, and you've still got them on lead, but that's for different reasons. And I will then and I know that if I let my spaniel off first, the collie, the spaniel's the one that believe it or not, the spaniel's the one who instigates it. And I know that if she's had I I know when she's done enough sniffing and things that she's had enough time to bring her general excitement and arousal level down, and the same with the collie as well. And then I see them, they also they're very good because they'll have a little play and they'll have a little run together, but then they go off and do their own thing for a bit, and then I can see that the collie wants more, and actually the Spanish, like, no, I've had enough, and like, no, leave her alone. And if she's still on, she goes back on lead. So, but I do think as well for them, I do it as well for their relationship because I think it's really important for their relationship because I do have to manage that relationship, and they have a lovely relationship, and I don't want that to change. And I know that my collie can have moments where their relationship could easily go downhill if I'm not careful. Yeah, she's a hard friend to have some days. She is. We all have them. Yeah, but she also has I think she gains so much from having that time. And a friend. Yeah, and a friend, yeah, a dog who actually is quite robust to play with and do dogs, you know, dog-dog interactions in a safe and appropriate way. Now, what do you think about ball throwing? It's not on my list at all, and actually, even for any sort of dog, I it's it goes out the window. Whether they've had a past injury, which it really is, it has to not happen at all. It it's just not something that I think.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

No, I absolutely know that you're thinking to the choir so they say um or frisbee throwing or any of those things. If it's clean, then I would do a shorter distance. So you have less speed. But where you can maybe someone holding the toy that they can take it from that person or so much to think about, isn't there? Massive. So much to think about. How about walking versus off-lead? How do you how do you feel about dogs who walk, dogs who are off-lead, what sort of time they should get, for example? Is on lead, does on lead have a place? Does off lead have a place? What's what do you think the balance should be?

Lead Versus Off Lead Balance

SPEAKER_00 10:52

I think everything has a place and it's in management. I mean, my except ball throwing. Except ball throwing in terms of on and off lead. In terms of on and off lead, I'll put that caveat in. Just in case. But yes, I think there's a place for everything. My collie spends a lot of time either on a long line or on a flexi lead. So her sort of technical, what you say, off-lead time is different, hence why I hire fields and things like that for her to get have some time where she isn't on the long line, but quite often I have several long lines long together, so she does get time to do those things. Yeah. But I actually do spend a lot of time on lead walking. I mean, we've spent the last two days walking, and my Spaniel's been on lead all the time.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

Yeah, and and the main reason you've kept her on lead is because of the work she's going to do. So maybe explain that a little.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, work she can do, and the areas that we're walking in as well, because there's a lot of pheasants around, and I know she would be a hunt, she'd be hunting. Her and her little friend Wilst, both of them are basically banned from off lead right now in those spaces. In those spaces, different if we're on a beach. Yep, absolutely, different if we're in a different place, but because of where we are, and I've also got crufts in eight weeks, so that's the other thing as well. So, and you sort of mentioned a little bit ago about my two dogs running in the field, they didn't get to do that prior to Olympia, and they won't get to do that prior to crufts because it's an injury prevention point view. Because I just want to minimize any chance of that happening. They did have a little bit of time together over Christmas in the fields, and that's probably the video she's talking about. But they they don't just run a sprint, they they lay down and play together as well, you know. So it's not just sort of running and chasing together. And my collie loves to be chased, she absolutely loves to be chased. And as soon as I see her start to try and chase the spaniel, I stop it because that's again acts and won't happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

How about ground surfaces and surfaces that we're walking on, training on, playing on? How important is that when you think about off-lead on lead again? For example, slippy ground, wet ground, icy ground. We're currently in maybe some of our wetter ground area right now. Like, how does that look for you? Are you aware of it? Is it something you consider?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Oh gosh, yes, definitely. I mean, even last week, or the week before, I had a training session that I'd booked on, so paid for, turned up, helped them set the course and said, right, I'm leaving because it was too wet. So I didn't actually train because I'm not going to risk it. For me, it was too wet. I know other people chose to, but my choice was that wasn't a risk I was prepared to take. Um, because there was standing water in the arena.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

It's one of the things I absolutely love about the astroturf in the arena that we train on as some amazing that you don't have any, there's no change in scenario. No. So when it's hot, when it's cold, the only thing that changed is the temperature of the air. But other than that, is that and and also the shock absorbency of the pad underneath. Like I know how good the shock absorbency is, and I know there are venues with astro turf laid on concrete, which for me worries me because people don't know that. Yeah. So they might train on it thinking they've got an astroturf surface, but actually underneath it is concrete, which really feels that when you walk on it yourself as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

If you're aware of it. Yeah, if you're aware of it too right, absolutely. And I I mean, obviously, what I do, I'm very aware what I feel under feet. You know, we talked the other day about how deep sand versus wet sand, wet sand that's hard where the tide's just gone out, is much better than walking across deep sand or a pebble beach or things like that. I would avoid pebble beaches for me.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

I mean, even when we were riding yesterday, some of the going uphill, I mean, it was hard going on the animals. You know it. Yeah. You know it, don't you? Let alone a sports animal that you're about to a dog who's going to be running, sprinting, doesn't really think about which direction they're going in. I mean, they're not, they're not on sometimes off lead, like pebble beaches are downright dangerous, aren't they? When you let some dogs off.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Yeah, definitely. I think it's really important, you know, to bear that in mind. We were talking about a, you know, to a lady whose dog had sort of different mobility issues, so only had three legs. So it's really important when you're sort of like down a limb, when you rely on four limbs, it's like us losing one of our legs and not having a prosthetic, and we would have to hop. You know, the surface would be massively different for us. Maybe we wouldn't even think about when we had two legs to use. So, you know, anything like compromise. So if it was the older dog or sort of arthritic changes, or younger dog. Yeah, young dogs as well, all those things, really sort of factors to bear in mind.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

And actually, the lady, it was a pro dog trainer, pro-dog trainer student, love her, absolutely brilliant student. But I'm also aware when she was listening on that call, she throws a frisbee. So I hope that she took away from that. This is not the dog to throw a frisbee with. As much as this dog enjoys it, there are lots of other things we can do, find it games or hiding things or scent work or balance paths or um sort of sensory work. Yeah. But not throwing frisbees for a dog like that, because they're front loading to an extreme degree.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yes, particularly as well, that dog obviously lost a front leg because the dog is front loaded anyway, naturally, even without any compromise, which you know, we've talked about brave with, you know, although you say like she has still has four legs, it's like she is down a leg anyway, so she doesn't have the another leg to have anything happen to, and when she sort of finds things sore, then we're when she was lame.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

I was absolutely like beside myself thinking this might be the end of a dog, really, because she I don't know how you live with with a lame dog on three legs, like it isn't livable. Suddenly you look at different things again, you're like, trolley is an option, uh like you start to think differently. So, yeah, absolutely it's it's a but when you've got a front leg, it's very, very different because that's definitely a big reliance, you know, and all compensations.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

But she was doing a lot of good things with that dog. So she was having massages, it was doing hydro in a pool, which again I think is really important. A lot of the time I say it doesn't matter them whether you're in a pool or a treadmill, but uh with an amputee, it does matter. Yeah, you're swimming. Yeah, you need you can't do treadmill work with an amputee, but you could use a treadmill to do swimming.

How Much Exercise And What To Feed

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah, so you can be clever. I watched that on your videos the other day and you don't see that often. I thought it's brilliant. You can be clever with what you've got, you know. Yeah, no, brilliant, brilliant. So, last question an exercise. I have two more, I've got one. Yeah, last question, exercise before one more question. The amount of time a day across a week you're working with you're working with sports dogs or maybe um a fit pet dog, how how does that look? Amount of time across a week should be spent exercising. Because I'm one of these people that I'm like, I've never got enough time. And I'm sure most people are this people, these people these days, life is busy. Like, how much time is is sort of right really for from an exercise point of view?

SPEAKER_00 17:06

I think that also depends on the dog. I mean, a lot like all I tend to say, I know I say that a lot, which is probably really hard, but if you the older dogs are more the dogs that's got some arthritic changes, I would say short and frequent is really important rather than longer and less. That's when they struggle the most. So, you know, maybe like two, five, five, ten minute walks a day, depending upon the level of dog. Brave would prefer that. Yeah, that's definitely her like multi-little things.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Lots of lots of jobs with me around the yard. Yeah, lots of little things. And then how about a Phoenix or a TG style dog, so fitter, healthier, active, working dogs?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

They generally get anywhere between 45 minutes to an hour and a half, depending upon what I want to do and the train I'm on, whether it's on lead, whether I put some off lead in, that type of thing, the weather as well. We're about to go out for a hike in this. How warm or cold it is, or how wet it is. But generally, this type of weather, like you say, it's wet, they've both got coats on. So it keeps them warm, it keeps them dry, therefore means we can probably do longer. Whether we've done a lot of hill work, but then that's also something I love the fact that we're down here. And I just said to you this morning, I went, Oh my gosh, my body after doing these hills, because I don't have many hills at home.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

And that's and that's a big thing. The dogs will feel that too, won't they? But the hills, I'm thinking we'll take the hill. And just because it is, it's it's like an extra, it's bit for free, isn't it? Like it's a bit you get a bit extra. Absolutely. It's not going any further. A really good thing to include. I was sweating. Sweating. Last thing is if your dog has extra exercise or more exercise or does a bit more or is having a strenuous week or anything else, do you feed any differently?

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Definitely. So, so with you know, Phoenix is sort of on the build-up to to cruft. So for me, I've her exercise is building over the next sort of six, seven weeks. So definitely more nutrition to feed that body, to feed that muscle, to feed the growth that I want in the next sort of six to seven weeks, really, because everything I'm upping and gradually upping what she's doing, both the intensity, the frequency, and the duration. So they're all really important things for for sports dogs that we need to bear in mind, really. Frequency, intensity, and duration.

Final Takeaways And Goodbye

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Really lovely. Mel, I know that everybody is going to take lots from this. I know there's lots more to get at the same time. I think we're going to go out and go for some exercise. Sounds good.