Why Engagement Changes Everything

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The thing that you keep referring to is the the the state of the dog, that the dog gets some endorsements and some happiness out of whatever it is that you're going to bring them and that we're doing it together.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Welcome to the Absolute Dog Sex in a Squirrel podcast. I'm Lauren Langman. I'm one of the world's leading dog trainers, and it's my mission to help owners become their dog's top priority. In each episode, you'll discover how to gain trust and communicate with your dog like never before, creating unbreakable bonds that make you the most exciting part of their world. So, engagement, probably the single biggest thing that if you don't have it, you're definitely not going to do agility, you're definitely not going to be out doing obedience, and you're probably not making the best dog owner. Because I know this morning I had a cow incident where one of mine saw a cow and went, I'm going to work that. And I was like, Oh my god, did my recall, bang, back on a toy. But if I didn't have that engagement, what'd you do? Like, that's it's all it's all part of like the game, isn't it? You've got to have that engagement because if not, the world is probably going to be way more exciting. So, what would be a top tip or a top skill or a top game or a top thought when it comes to engagement for you, Hughes?

Catch And Reward The Check-In

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Reward it when you see it. Catch them doing something right. Yeah. Because we they do engage, and lots of people just take don't take any notice. Give me an example, because you've been teaching this week because what have you seen? Well, they do behaviours. Yeah. So they do behaviours, and then the dog does the behavior, and then it re-engages with the owner, and they take no notice. And they miss it. They don't they don't reward it. It's like, well, that didn't happen. Bad. And then they go, Oh, he switches off a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

And you're like, well, actually, you don't catch many things, and actually I'd like to tell the you pot kettle black. Pot kettle black. Um, yeah, no, it's really, it's a really valid point. What do you do in the absence of a cue? What do you expect your dogs to do in the absence of a cue?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

I expect them to what what I call Q seek. I expect them to look at me and go, Are we doing anything else?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

What do they say? What do they actually say? Isn't it like, how may I help you? Would Madam like anything else? Would Madam like anything else? And that is really what we want from our dogs, isn't it? Like we want them out and about going, How else can I help you? Yes. What else could I offer you? Yes, how else can I be a good dog?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But we ignore it. We take it so on a on a walk, I call it checking in, then I if they go, Are you still there, mum? I go, Good check-in, well done.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

I love that. And here's a here's a great example. I just started with a youngster and I walked her with a chicken breast yesterday. And so every check-in got a lump of chicken breasts, and quite quickly she wants to check in. Yes. No Sherlock. And like, you know what? Like, she's enjoying the fact that we're reawarding her and we're giving her reinforcement for basic little look-ins. It's check-in. It's tiny, it's small, but it makes a massive difference. Huge amount. And all you need is a chicken breast or a liver or a or a lung or a something that is probably an animal part. If you're opposed to animal parts, then AOK9 and absolute dogs do pates. They're very nice and they're a bit cleaner in your hands. But similar to that, like you want to be able to be having something in your hands that you're able to do. You don't have to do that forever. No, not at all. I mean establishing the behaviour first. I've got some really stunning, well-behaved, well-trained dogs who have that done for the first probably six months to a year of their life. And then really not much after that. Like I'd I'd reward mine very infrequently now, the the established dogs. I try really hard not to give Skittle food out on a walk because she's always chew-seeking. I'm almost like, no, no, you've done enough of that now. Go be a dog. Like you

Food Rewards That Build Habits

SPEAKER_01 3:50

can flip it the other way where you actually need to keep that balance up. So that's a really great one. Okay, engagement. My I'm gonna hand back to you, so be ready. Mine would be play with your dog. I I think play is one of the best ways to communicate and have fun with your dog. So for me, and actually, I've had a really lovely time working with the youngster yesterday and today, and I've had a really lovely time getting her to fire up at me because I've realized quite quickly she likes to lie down with a toy. I know that I need them firing up because if they stay down, you'll never get that movement that you want. You'll never get that you want on your toes, on your toes, on your toes. So I'll get them to come up for that toy. So that for me is a really, a really big one. So play, play and play. Um, I don't necessarily need expensive toys. I need the toy that the dog needs. So quite often with a puppy, I'll play the sock, something like that they can tug on to that's nice and soft, or I'll make my own ball on a rope. Like they don't need to be like, and then sometimes I'll do chasey tugs, and sometimes I'll do like at the moment I've got like a roadkill squirrel tied to a plaited mug and something that's gonna engage them, something that's gonna get them working for you. So I love things that move, so I love movement-based things, but play, play and play. If you haven't seen, we've got some really cool courses in Games Club on play. It's just one pound a month trial, so you can jump in at the one pound a month games club trial. And we've also got I've just finished filming play course, so just 10 days of play. So it's 27 pounds, like mental price. It's and it's only that price, like as a an intro price, so you can come and get it as an intro price. But play is massive. I know you love to play with your dogs. I do, I do.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

I need that for my sport because we can't take food in the room. Yeah, and your sport's ultimately boring to do. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

I mean, how rude. Truthful. Yes, yes, um, so thank you for being truthful back. And it like ultimately, I I absolutely love the end result. But God, get in there. Like, I'd happily take another on. Like, I'm I am first in the queue, please. Hughes, put me there. But do I want to do all of the work that gets to that point? Like, there's a lot. There is a isn't there? I mean, way more than agility, and agility's a lot, agility's a lot. Like, I I I believe that there should be a market for part-trained animals in that sense because there's so much work that goes in, and some people just don't either have the ability or also actually motivate themselves to do it or discipline. Oh, discipline.

Play As The Fastest Connector

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Because I've always got the motivation, but sometimes I don't have the discipline. So I actually have to discipline myself to do it. Like, no, you need to go out there and and train daily to get that result, particularly on something like weeds or running contacts or yours to be heel work. You have to be training that diligently daily. Yeah. On a serious note, I think that like for me, it's very easy to pick up a dog who already loves their toy and already loves their food and already wants to work and has no problems. But actually, most dogs aren't that. Most dogs don't love their food or their toys, or they have a load of hang ups already, whether it's people or dogs or reactivity or I don't know, checking out or checking in or whatever. Like, there's so much going on there that's before you even get into the sport. But engagement's huge. So, anyway, play for me. And in the meantime, didn't manage to insult Linda Sport. Um, go on, what else? What would be another engagement?

Arousal And Celebration Without Inhibition

SPEAKER_00 6:49

The thing that you keep referring to is the the state of the dog arousal. So people well, not necessarily not necessarily arousal, but that they're that the dog gets some endorphins and some happiness out of whatever it is that you're offering them doing it together because that's what creates the willingness to engage. It's so it's not about what else are enjoying it. Like boring, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Did you ever find out that I don't know what I've got? Yeah, I was thinking about calling the dog nice, and I'm the same. I'm like, nice, cool, you're so good.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Like we naturally go into that. Yeah, lots and lots of people don't put that in. Where that came from, like it was always there for me.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah, it was always there for me to be that excited with the dog. And yeah, I'll I'll be really transparent here. I find it that hard to be like that with my daughter.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

And I don't know what that's about. I mean, probably need a therapist. Um, but um, but you you you know that like I find it really easy to dote and to adore and to play like happiness, funny, silly. Celebrate silly with you. Whereas with with Eliza, I find that much harder to really. I don't find it hard to celebrate her. I find it hard to be gushy celebration. I don't find it hard to go, well done, you did amazing kid. You did great.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

But well done, you did amazing.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, but not like you did amazing. Like I definitely don't do that as well, celebrate. And like she's yeah, she's brilliant like at what she does. She's she's a really talented kid. She's an amazing kid. And yeah, and she's just fun as well. Like, she's a fun little person to be around. She loves you views, which I always love. I love it when she's like, I want to be Linda. So whenever we find a nice top that we think suits Linda, we're like, Yeah, that would suit Linda, that one. But yeah, it's an interesting one. It's it's a really interesting one. That whole celebration piece. I think a lot of people they don't they don't like to lose their inhibitions. No, they don't. No.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

And and a lot of people don't understand that that energy in connecting with the dog is all part of the is all part of what creates the the motivation, the team, the connection and the emotional connection. You know what then the dog gets is having a lovely time at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

I think a lot of people are also scared of rejection, that they don't want the dog to not want it. Not want what they've got. Yeah, or they don't want the dog to turn away and say, now I don't want that.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, and that's an interesting one. I think a lot of people don't like rejection. And and certainly with some play, you know, you know, you know, as a trainer of other dogs, that you have to be sensitive to a dog's personality. And I certainly have a dog who's who's now retired, but he would never do manual play. No. If I if I started pushing him about and getting all hands-on like I do with Ulla, he'd be horrified. He'd be like excuse me. I remember once being permission for this. No, that's yes, you have I haven't given you permission to touch me. What do you mean? He likes a stroke and all of that, but when I was doing uh a competition once, he made a he made some errors, he wasn't really on it. So I thought, I'll do some training while I'm in the ring. And I tried to sort of g him up and put my hands on him, and and for the rest of that round, he walked along beside me as if he was a pet dog on a walk, not doing obedience. Because I had so many insulted him.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

He was like You views

Reinforcers And Respecting The Individual Dog

SPEAKER_01 10:23

have insulted my very being. Never at arm's length. Yes, just don't touch me, please. So funny, like so funny. Uh and I think that probably comes down to engagement, is know what reinforces your dog. And there's a brilliant saying, and um it escapes me actually. Um, is a skinner, and it it basically um just reminds you that the easier your dog is to reinforce, the more behaviours you're going to be able to establish, which makes complete sense. But when you when you think about it, you sometimes have to think about it, right? You have to take yourself back a step. And and so for me, a dog who is easier to reinforce is a dog who is easier to train. To train. So a dog who has, for example, I'm training a youngster at the moment, she doesn't particularly like food, and she doesn't particularly train if she hasn't eaten. Uh-huh. She's quite a hard to train, and I keep saying that's mad. Like, she's not the most straightforward to train, like, she isn't easy to train. A do a duper and easier dog to train.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

And and for somebody who's experienced, you know that, and you'll work around it and you'll work with it. And you're absolutely somebody who's not not a very experienced person or not very experienced, you think it's my fault, my dog doesn't want to do that, so I'm lost. I don't know what to do with it. Yeah, you you think it was you, you think you'd made a mistake.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Go on, engagement over to you.

Cues For Switching On And Off

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Engagement, you cut off your wedding ring. Didn't you? You and your husband both cut it off together. We cut it off.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Well, I I I have rheumatoid arthritis, and so from time to time my hands swell up badly, and my wedding ring got caught on at a time like that. So we together we cut it off. We forgot that when you when you cut something with a tremble, it gets hot. So you've all seen nearly burnt your finger off. So we nearly burnt my finger off at the same time. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

So we found it very funny. And as a couple, they they got through it. Go on, another engagement, engagement point, or it's gonna be our last engagement point. Is it?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah, engagement, not of the wedding ringed variety. Engagement point. Well, at least you're not just engaged anymore, are you?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Finally sorted out. Finally, took us a while, went to be wedded, managed to run away from life, and uh it was quite long. It did not take me long, only a couple of years. 15 year years later.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Anyway, anyway, anyway, engagement with dogs. Then you need to so we've we've done we you need to notice them doing it, we've done, you need to understand you've got to make it worth their while, and we've done that when it you that it's about the relationship, which is a cement of everything to get engagement. You also need to let them know when you don't want it. Oh, brilliant one, because that's your yin and yang, you're black and white, yeah. So we're switched on, I want you engaged with me, and then now I want you to go and lie in your bed and I call it chill out. So but in my work, it's I have a beginning and an end word. I say game on, yeah, and they engage. Yeah. And I say, that'll do. That'll do. And they switch off and toot the line. I love that. Yeah, and it's really important to be clear because otherwise, when do they know that we need it?

SPEAKER_01 13:25

And when and we don't want them key seeking all the time. We don't, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

We don't want them, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

We want them to have a nice life, ultimately. Nudging and all that sort of stuff that they can get into doing. So is engagement important? Abs uh freaking lutely. Like it's massive, isn't it? It's the be-all and end all really of dog training. Correct engagement, appropriate engagement, and also appropriate disengagement, all for the taking and all for the playing. Without engagement, you certainly wouldn't be doing obedience, nope, and I certainly wouldn't be doing agility. And then we get to think about the appropriate engagement and actually not the other, because it's actually appropriate they engage with us, but it's not appropriate they engage with the rest of the world most of the time. Most of the time, we need them engaged with us and they're able to be fairly indifferent about other things that are going on alongside.

Appropriate Engagement And Listener Questions

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Both Linda and I feel we have mastered the art of engagement with our own dogs, but we want to help you with that. So if you've got any questions, if you want to make any comments, please get in touch with the Ask team. I know that Linda and myself, both in the community, really happy to answer them. Make it a great day. And Linda, we'll see you back really soon, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

You will